I can try it . But.. hmm i never done Magtheridon so might be better if i try it for real on Gruul ^^zNow wrote:Could maybe some PvE whore lock try and specc this way for an upcoming raid?
Preferably Magtheridon since we can and should pot up there and it will most likely be a kill.
A warlock who is ashamed ( help mages is his message)
This is min-max to the extreme
He uses a build that
1) Does not provide the 5% less pysical damage he sais a warlock can bring to a raid.
2) Does not uses a pet. (saccing it for 15% more damage)
3) Is totally useless in any PvP situation (but with his 6700hp i dont think that matters)
Playing in a 25raiding world with 5 warlocks all the time that is possible, we are not playing at that level and never will be.
I took a look at our magtheridon video and saw that we already use a optimal meele dps grp "rogue+shammy+druid".
If we had spriest+5warlocks in the raid spamming shadowbolts to keep 20% extra damage up (affects dots aswell Sneek, not only dd) i would be surprised if meele could beat that in a pure dps 25man fight.
He uses a build that
1) Does not provide the 5% less pysical damage he sais a warlock can bring to a raid.
2) Does not uses a pet. (saccing it for 15% more damage)
3) Is totally useless in any PvP situation (but with his 6700hp i dont think that matters)
Playing in a 25raiding world with 5 warlocks all the time that is possible, we are not playing at that level and never will be.
I took a look at our magtheridon video and saw that we already use a optimal meele dps grp "rogue+shammy+druid".
If we had spriest+5warlocks in the raid spamming shadowbolts to keep 20% extra damage up (affects dots aswell Sneek, not only dd) i would be surprised if meele could beat that in a pure dps 25man fight.
Last edited by Gupim on 30 Apr 2007, 11:14, edited 1 time in total.
"go all out, i wont lose aggro"
I believe affliction/sb builds should beat his dps but he gets in the optimal groups always. I posted it more as a comment on mages vs warlock damage output. I was pretty bad for locks pre-tbc but now we can go on forever in a bossfight and do good damage too.
I ain't leaving without your soul and I am sober this time.
Mage forum is full of whining about this. A simple question "what is the class role of a mage?" can't be answered by blizzard.
I have no clue too tbh.
Like narg said, spit out every nuke you can do, use all consumables posible (+1240 damage and 30%crit) no cube task and still not even close is pretty frustrating tbh.
Not to forget the Invisible we have to use (and wait for ages for it's effect).
I have no clue too tbh.
Like narg said, spit out every nuke you can do, use all consumables posible (+1240 damage and 30%crit) no cube task and still not even close is pretty frustrating tbh.
Not to forget the Invisible we have to use (and wait for ages for it's effect).
Magtheridon is a terrible fight for dps charts.
Myself i spend first ~2mins in the fight hunting infernal while applying CoT on the channelers, the rest of the fight im staying focused on hunting down cubes where ppl has died.
And the 10ppl in clicky rotation shouldnt be stressed with doing dps since its not an issue after the channelers are dead.
Synked damage list on Gruul would be nice tho, make sure to bring 5warlocks and im not on CoS duty
Myself i spend first ~2mins in the fight hunting infernal while applying CoT on the channelers, the rest of the fight im staying focused on hunting down cubes where ppl has died.
And the 10ppl in clicky rotation shouldnt be stressed with doing dps since its not an issue after the channelers are dead.
Synked damage list on Gruul would be nice tho, make sure to bring 5warlocks and im not on CoS duty
"go all out, i wont lose aggro"
, hydross is nice aswell.
We've had one of our warlocks spec like that a couple of days ago. He's never been below the #1 spot on damagemeters ever since, while we ALWAYS had rogues on #1 and #2. So yes ... it's a bit overpowered atm 
Vashj is not killable in her current state. Nihilum got lucky by getting her to 15% or whatever and promptly dropping dead, they haven't killed her ever since.Heck, according to an audio interview of Nihilum of WoWradio.com they say Vashj's only doable if you pot up to the max and then execute flawlessly.
Roses are red. Violets are blue. In soviet Russia, poem writes you.
similair post on US forum
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 4481&sid=1
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 4481&sid=1
Why am I, a warlock, better than a mage? It doesn't make sense to me. I didn't sign up to be the big nuker, I didn't sign up to be #1 DPS, I didn't sign up to be a PVP god, I signed up to be a raider with dps below others while offering viable utility. I will offer, from my point of view (Warlock in a high end raiding guild), what I honestly feel is wrong with the mage class.
1. Obviously: DPS.
I don't understand why I can outdps Mages. Let's see what I have. I have, as an affliction warlock, 5 DoT's that I can apply, and when I am done, I can starting casting shadowbolts. These Shadowbolts hit for just as much as a fireball if you're fire, or a frostbolt if you're frost. So, obviously, considering all a mage is doing is spamming these, I will do more DPS as my dot's are ticking for well over 1000 if all of them tick.
Oh and you can't forget our new AOE. Seed of corruption that with my +shadow damage explodes for 1700ish and can crit for over 3k.
What sense does this make. The mage is the glass cannon, the insane DPS that trades survivability for DPS. But wait, your DPS isn't as high as a warlocks, who's survivability is exponentially better than yours. Which takes us into our next topic.
2. Survivability.
First of all, at level 70, it is rare to find a mage with over 7,000 Hp. This is due to the absolutely horrid mage itemization which is consistently wasting points with spirit and other equally worthless stats. Stamina is important to every class. Compare this to warlocks, who get their +damage coupled with a load of stamina. You say "Alright, but you're a warlock, you're supposed to have high stamina, you always have.", Well, you're right. We always have. But only recently has there been such an extreme gap between the two classes as far as their total viability in raids, and in PVP.
Survivability skills, warlocks get: Deathcoil, AOE fear (instant, if you're afflic), fear (50% interruptions with our amazingly itemized pvp gear), and if you're so inclined to include it, a healthstone that, coupled with fel armor, can heal you for over 4k. Oh that reminds me, Fel armor, untalented 20% extra healing from everything, including potions, healthstones, heals, siphon life, drain life, the works.
What do mages get? They get a polymorph that instantly heals their target, frost nova that is (A) Dispellable, (B) Easily Breakable, (C) Vanishable, escape artistable, cloak of shadows, the works. Not to mention the plethora of trinkets that get you out of it. And to top it all off, it doesnt even last long even when it doesn't break. Oh, and they have blink. Blink puts some distance between you and your enemy, or closes it. Rogues? Deadly throw, sprint, run away and stealth again, plethora of counter moves. Warriors? Intercept, which I believe is on the exact same cooldown. Nifty, huh.
So effectively, warlocks are better in 1. DPS, 2. Survivability, and my next point. Utility.
So on top of all of this there's the neat things that each class can do to make themselves more important to a group, or even solo.
Warlocks:
Felhunter that can dispell and counterspell, Imp that talented gives almost 1000 HP to the party,
healthstones that talented heal for 2496 and crit for 4500, a soulstone that allows for a second life,
Curses that amplify the damage of others(and their own), a curse that increases casting time by 60%, a talent that reduces physical damage done (works on bosses) by 5%, a curse that reduces armor, a curse that reduces attack power, a succubus that can charm, a banish that works on demon's and elementals (oh so rare in outlands?), enslave demon to sometimes rip a mob out of a pull or even simplify a boss fight (maulgar anyone?), detect magic to see invis'd mages, and the incredibly useless underwater breathing. Oh, and of course, fear can be a utility spell as it's incredibly useful in many end game encounters (Magtheridon's). Oh, and the talents Nether protection (30% chance to become immune to fire when hit with fire, or likewise with shadow), and of course soul link. Eye of kilrogg is nifty for scouting.
Look at that list. That is one hell of a list. I'm probably forgetting some, too.
Mages:
Decurse. Arcane Intellect. Sheep humanoids. Make food and water. Frost nova for add control. Frost is sometimes decent for kiting. Spellsteal is good for some encounters+pvp. Invisibility. Uhhh.......
I'm really reaching here....ummm....slow fall? Detect magic I suppose....I don't play a mage, so I'm sure I'm forgetting some, but nothing big I'm sure.
Sustainability:
Warlocks:
Life tap talented with my shadow damage does 1500ish damage to me while restoring over 2k mana. I could life tap twice, 3 times and be up 50% of my mana pool, and be healed with a single HoT, a bandage, or a healthstone that I always have handy. I have never. EVER. popped a mana potion on a boss fight. I have Dark pact, which allows me to steal mana from my pet, which is always the imp who is phase shifted and cannot die, I might add. I have a paladin put blessing of wisdom on my pet which works to it's fullest, and since my imp never cast's he is always regenning at the wicked fast speeds that pet's always regen mana at. Life tapping is almost never used when you have this skill, you are completely and totally self sustainable while only slightly lowering your DPS for the global cooldown when you click the skill. There is no other cooldown, it's not a cast, it's not a channel, it's an instant mana battery that is always there. Always. I didn't drink, or eat, a single time leveling from 60-70, nor do I even now. life tap is quickly healed by siphon life, and a death coil heals for 1000+
Mages: Mana gems. The talent that gives you a percent of your mana back when you resist a spell. Potions. Evocation on an 8 minute timer. Who wins?
So, basically what's going on is that you have a class that is inferior to the other in every single conceivable way other than one. Burst DPS. I'll agree with that, but how much burst are you going to do in arena when you are stunlocked, hit insanely hard with your miniscule hp? Not much. Why? Because you'll be dead. Meanwhile I'll be taking the hits, hitting my instant AOE fear that will give my healers time to hit me, I'll deathcoil the melee off of me, hit the priest with a curse of tongues for insanely annoying cast times, all the while getting healed for 26% more than a mage ge'ts healed for, even though I have, generally speaking, 2-3k more HP than mages.
The problems with this are absolute mind boggling. How is this justifiable? And even with this, they are NERFING mages still? Hypothermia? What? If I was a mage, I'd reroll a warlock, but thankfully I don't, I just really, really feel like you are consistently, at least for a little while now, getting the short end of the stick. You have bad survivability, comparably subpar DPS, small amounts of utility, mediocre sustainability, and terrible itemization.
Sucks to be a mage, Blizzard, sucks to be a mage.
i can do it but i prefer not doing it for mag, since threatmeter is a bit weird on mag and i wouldnt be used to nuking that way. but i would love to try it out for gruul. loosing some +dmg though since ive been aiming for +shadow and not +fire but that should be fine anywayzNow wrote:Could maybe some PvE whore lock try and specc this way for an upcoming raid?
Preferably Magtheridon since we can and should pot up there and it will most likely be a kill.
Welcome to Rivendale Mr. Anderson