Theorycraft - Holy PvP Priest (with leet wanding skills)

Post by **sneek** » 22 Dec 2005, 22:39

By request from Eienne (and made possible due to Blizzard's login server).
Feel free to punch in holes and stuff. Everyone loves poking fun at the class that'll get its talents totally messed up in 1.10.

Hypothesis: Priests are a top nuking class in the game. With Smite.

In order to get his nuking potential, the priest has to spec deeply into Holy (31) and the obligatory Discipline (20). Check out the Talent Tree.

Combos:
- Focused Casting, Holy Nova

- Smite
- Whatever prissy healing stuff you do as usual.

The Math:
Smite VIII
Damage: 371-415
AvgDmg: 393
Delta: 22 (5.6%)
Cast: 2.5s
Mana: 295
AvgDps: 157.2
Dmg/Mana: 1.33

Divine Fury: -0.5s cast
Improved Smite: +10% dmg

TalentedDps: 216.2
TalentedDmg/Mana: 1.47

The Comparison (Shadowpriest):
Mind Flay VI
Damage: 426
AvgDmg: 426
Delta: 0 (0%)
Cast: 3s
Mana: 205
AvgDps: 142
Dmg/Mana: 2.08

Darkness: +10% dmg
Shadow Weaving: +15% dmg (theorycraft optimal)
Shadowform: +15% dmg

TalentedDps: 198.8
TalentedDmg/Mana: 2.91

The Comparison (Shaman):
Lightning Bolt X
Damage: 419-467
AvgDmg: 443
Delta: 24 (5.4%)
Cast: 3s
Mana: 315
AvgDps: 147.7
Dmg/Mana: 1.41

Lightning Mastery: -1s cast
Improved Lightning Bolt: -15% mana

TalentedDps: 221.5
TalentedDmg/Mana: 1.65

The Comparison (Frostmage):
Frost Bolt X
Damage: 429-463
AvgDmg: 446
Delta: 17 (3.8%)
Cast: 3s
Mana: 260
AvgDps: 148.7
Dmg/Mana: 1.72

Improved Frostbolt: -0.5s cast
Frost Channeling: -15% mana
Piercing Ice: +6% dmg

TalentedDps: 189.1
TalentedDmg/Mana: 2.14

The Comparison (Firemage):
Fireball XI
Damage: 561-715 and 72/8s
AvgDmg: 638 and 72/8s
Delta: 77 (12.1%)
Cast: 3.5s
Mana: 395
AvgDps: 182.3 + 9
Dmg/Mana: 1.80

Improved Fireball: -0.5s cast
Fire Power: +10% dmg
Improved Scorch: +4% dmg (theorycraft optimal)

TalentedDps: 242.4 + 10.3
TalentedDmg/Mana: 2.05

The Comparison (Warlock):
Shadow Bolt IX
Damage: 455-507
AvgDmg: 481
Delta: 26 (5.4%)
Cast: 3s
Mana: 370
AvgDps: 160.3

Bane: -0.5s cast
Cataclysm: -5% mana
Shadow Mastery: +10% dmg

TalentedDps: 211.6
TalentedDmg/Mana: 1.51

Problems:
- Holy tree. It's gimped.
- Shadow tree. This build hasn't got any talents in that tree!
- Smite is 2.5s base casting time and benefits 71% from +dmg gear.
- Holy only at 150% damage on a critical.
- A holy priest who doesn't have Subtlety.

Benefits:
- You'll die just as fast, so talents don't really matter anyway.

* Edit 1: added Mage, Warlock nukes.
* Edit 2: added Shadowpriest mindflay.
* Edit 3: added damage per mana for Mage untalented frostbolt.
* Edit 4: Removed confusing Discipline +5% dmg talent that isn't used in the Smite example.
* Edit 5: added Firemage nuke. Noted Theorycraft optimals.

Eienne · Post by **Eienne** » 22 Dec 2005, 22:59

As always flawless number crunching by Sneek

Late · Post by **Late** » 23 Dec 2005, 02:18

That's all well and good, Sneek, but tbh any Shadow Priest that just spams Mind Flay is a complete and utter nooblet. There was a thread on the official EU priest forums about 6 months ago that explored the DPS of a Holy Priest, they managed in theory to get it up to about 400dps I think.

Post by **sneek** » 23 Dec 2005, 08:50

That's why it's Theorycraft

There's a lot more to Priests and every other class mentioned in here besides one of their nukes.

If you're looking for nuke scaling compared to damage gear - it's based on casttime and special effects (aoe, snaring, rooting etc).
Check out the EU's Mage forum's stickied thread on +dmg gear for details on +dmg gear on spells.

In short;
* Casts of 1.5s and lower (instants) gain the least from +dmg gear, while 3.5s (and longer) casts gain full benefit.
* If a spell is AOE, it benefits a third of the calculated +dmg gear added from casttime.
* If a spell delivers an effect (ie. snare) besides damage, it gets less benefit from +dmg gear.
* If a spell is "binary" in damage (ie. deliver instant damage and then a dot, like Moonspam) the +dmg gear benefit get spread over the initial damage and the dot depending on the ratio of the base damage dealt initially and base dot damage.

Taking that into account, judging from the above mentioned classes and their illustrated nukes, the ones with the best gain from +dmg gear would be the Firemage, followed by the Warlock and the Shaman, closely followed by the Frostmage which is then followed by the Smiting Priest.

In reality though only Mages and Warlocks have insane +dmg gear/trinkets.
Might be some confused healb... Priests who specialize in +dmg gear.
Noticed that Xfear (the ally priest that got R14 and then bailed to Neptulon) had several choice items from MC such as the Robe of Volatile Power, Talisman of Ephemeral Power, Mana Igniting Cord, etc.

Mycavycos · Post by **Mycavycos** » 23 Dec 2005, 13:39

Im am certain smite priests suck. The spell smite in itself can become pretty nasty with lots of damage gear. But its nothing compared to a shadowpriest since they Dot, nuke, flay has damage reduction, silence, lower fear cd etc etc

Holy priest has a tree full of crap : P

Late · Post by **Late** » 23 Dec 2005, 14:11

Agreed, Myca. I know it's only Theorycraft, Sneek, but you did say we should pick holes in it! Maybe Holy Priest might look half decent at nuking if he is allowed to just spam his nukes in front of an opponent who is just standing still doing nothing, but when you're in the middle of battle, especially as a priest you're not likely to be able to consistently get a free 2.5s or even 2s in which to cast Smite without interruption

Post by **sneek** » 23 Dec 2005, 14:24

Lot of caveats in theorycraft Late, Myca, no doubt

But I'm comparing nukes using every possible benefit, by request.

Having said that, priests won't smite or mindflay all the time, mages won't cast frostbolt or fireball all the time, warlocks won't shadowbolt all the time, shamans won't lightningbolt all the time and druids won't starfire all the time.

Goes for any class, so the ackward analysis for Priests' as ackward for all the other classes in this comparison.
So, the comparison still stands.

Know that I, as a shaman, will never expect myself to fire off bolts after another unmolested (don't even use them in PvP except, in exceptional circumstances, Chain Lightning).

I'm very curious as to what Blizzard will do with you guys in 1.10 though.

Shizume · Post by **Shizume** » 23 Dec 2005, 16:49

They will buff rogues ffs
we will be abel to omfgwtfpwn warriors as all the other classes now

Late · Post by **Late** » 24 Dec 2005, 01:49

I wouldn't hold much hope for Priest buffs in 1.10, to be honest. Even though the good talents in the Holy Tree are brilliant, most of them are utter crap considering they a) affect rarely-used spells and b) nearly all cost 5 points, or c) are just shit (Holy Fire and Nova, I'm looking at you)

Mol · Post by **Mol** » 24 Dec 2005, 12:42

Normally I would add to any Theorycraft post made on these boards, but since this one is about Priests, all I can say is 'STFU AND HAEL NOOB WHINING PREISTS!!'

Mycavycos · Post by **Mycavycos** » 24 Dec 2005, 13:11

Normally I would add to any Theorycraft post made on these boards, but since this one is about Priests, all I can say is 'STFU AND HAEL NOOB WHINING PREISTS!!'

STFU AND GO BLOW SOMETHING UP TERRORIST!

Eienne · Post by **Eienne** » 24 Dec 2005, 23:38

If nothing else I got more people to look at the "problem" and start having thoughts about it, even if they don't crunch numbers

Thanks again Sneek

Morlog · Post by **Morlog** » 25 Dec 2005, 15:01

but will this mean that priests with burning adreneline should spam smite instead of greater heal then? as its instacast highest dps in the game if i understand sneeks theorycraft correctly

Mycavycos · Post by **Mycavycos** » 25 Dec 2005, 19:13

but will this mean that priests with burning adreneline should spam smite instead of greater heal then? as its instacast highest dps in the game if i understand sneeks theorycraft correctly

Some guilds have their priests do that.

Post by **sneek** » 27 Jan 2006, 15:23

Dusting off this thread with some footage!

Check out this thread in the EU's Priest forum on a Holy priest. "2250! OMG!"

Or if you're more of a visual type

you can watch the "lol... smite" video.