PALADINS
http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/5/all/paladin/all/all/Skyly wrote:Got any link?Lateralus wrote:check geekboyz,, usually gives a good view on what builds is good for certain brackets!!Skyly wrote:gief best pally pvp spec, now!
And what are brackets? Groups based on rating?
Lies! Myca is a former non-swine eater and he says he's privileged that I (veggie) play his toon now!!11Fenz wrote:He wants his char to be played by swine eaters!Skyly wrote:no swine eater!Fenz wrote:Did Myca quit?Skyly wrote:thanks, respecc now. Had a suckass pvp spec earlier
I am just borrowing Dragni for pvp.
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Why Paladins Suck (Enjoy)
Original post:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 7047&sid=1
Second post:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 4154&sid=1
Third post:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 2035&sid=1
Fourth post (OP deleted by a Blue):
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 8132&sid=1
Fifth post:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 3800&sid=1
Hey look! 6 threads! I totally didn't see this one coming at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Blizzard. The 9 or so nerf patches since arenas came out have been lovely. Everything useful that a Paladin had, or was unique for, has been nerfed into the ground. Everything, EVERYTHING a Paladin had has been nerfed either by weakening the ability, or buffing other classes to negate it.
The Problem with Paladins:
- Divine Shield used to be the lifeline of a Paladin. Now Druids can spam an ability that renders it useless (by which I mean... theres now an overpowered CC from a HEALING class that we can't bubble out of), and Priests can just dispel it. Past that, once its been used, a Paladin is 100% DEFENSELESS. Literally. Go on a Paladin after he bubbles, and he or she won't be able to do a damn thing. Zero. Ziltch. Nada.
- Blessing of Freedom was too unique and useful to be left alone, so it needed a longer cooldown obviously... lets ignore the fact a bunch of classes can remove it... purge, dispel, arcane shot, spell steal, devour magic. The biggest problem I have with this nerf... is the same problem I have with the Illumination nerf. Nothing else was changed to compensate, and therefore, was a complete and utter nerf... while buffing other classes to further negate it. Guardian's Favor needed to be changed to REDUCE THE COOLDOWN on BoF, rather than increase the duration. Increasing the duration is USELESS if its removed shortly after being put on.
- Blessing of Sacrifice... wow... I originally thought that no one ever complained about this... but I was wrong.. It was probably one of the most balanced tools a Paladin had.... but you know what? Lets just slap on a 30 second cooldown for no reason, and still make it just as easy to remove as freedom. The top 3 most common (and by common, I also mean spammable) CCs without a cooldown are Fear, Sheep, and Cyclone. People cried that having a Paladin "immune" to CCs was overpowered, and that was the justification for putting a hefty cooldown on it. WRONG. Look closely. BoS doesn't do ANYTHING for 2 out of the 3 most common forms of CC. This nerf was not only unwarranted, but increased other classes abilities to lock down the most easily locked down class in the game.
- Illumination... so effin OP. Specing for a useful regen talent? No way, not allowed. Lets nerf that in half. Then, after that, lets NOT reitemize anything. So... Paladins still have 0 Mp5, and now their spell crits give half as much back. Great idea. For the nit pickers, yes... its 60%, not 50%. The message is still clear. Illumination is a poor form of mana regen in Arenas these days. Even if it was still 100%, that doesn't really help when you get drained to hell, and you couldn't do a damn thing about it. Illumination could be 500%, but it doesn't really matter when it takes 10 seconds to regen enough mana for a Flash of Light.
- No Passive Regen or Regen cooldowns.... Like mentioned in the previous section, the nerfed Illumination is all the Paladins get in terms of mana regen. All of the Paladin PvP gear (minus misc healing items, like rings and trinkets) have ZERO Mp5. Therefore, a Paladin has very little Mp5, and can only actively regen if healing. This means that the only way a Paladin can regen mana... is by using it. Not only that, but you get back LESS mana now, making Illumination a horrible talent... especially now that most teams can drain in some way. Also, every other class has regen cooldowns. Priests have Shadow Fiend, Druids have Innervate, and Shamans have Mana Tide Totem and Water Shield. Wheres the Paladin equivalent?
- Cleanse... never nerfed, but indirectly weakened after other class buffs. The fact that this ability costs more than a Flash of Light, only removes one debuff, and usually doesn't even WORK because other classes have talents to resist dispelling. This ability has become almost obsolete. If I get Viper Stung, with 5 stacks of scorpion poison and any other misc debuffs... I might as well not even bother cleansing. I'll just be wasting more mana. Heres a perfect example. I was in AV when this happened, but its the same principles as Viper Sting... but worse.
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2717 ... ailxh0.jpg
- Hammer of Justice... one minute cooldown, resists over half the time (people have talents and racials). Useless ability. Never works when you need it to, and its the only interrupt or escape talent that Paladins have. Priests have AoE fear and Mind Control (sometimes Silence), Druids can cyclone/roots/bash/maim/travel form, Shamans can Frost Shock, Earth Shock, and Earthbind totem...
- Holy Shock.... Three times the mana cost of flash, heals for less, and has a 15 second cooldown. Flash already heals for nothing... let alone with MS/wound poison.
- Plate Armor... We have the lowest HP of the 4 healing classes, and are the easiest to lock down... we might as well be in cloth. This is confirmed to be true. Look it up yourself.
- Heals... Holy Light is the only viable healing spell in arenas. Flash of Light is too weak, and not enough to keep people alive... especially when being crowd controlled and when fighting Wounding Poison or MS. Therefore, Paladins lose their mana efficiency that is associated with Flash of Light... PLUS they're working with nerfed Illumination AND multiple mana burning abilities... goodbye all Paladin efficiency.
- Heals... or lack thereof... No instant casts, shields, or HoTs... makes arena healing a joke. Not only are we EASILY locked down through abilities that increase cast time, but most classes have ways to interrupt healing, leaving the Paladin exposed and potentially useless for long periods of time. Furthermore, you must be in LoS of the person for every heal you cast, making you an easy target for all sorts of mana burns.
- Being Counterspelled/Kicked/Pummeled... not only common, and very easy to apply to a Paladin... but doing so locks the Paladin out of EVERY ABILITY HE HAS... including switching auras, even. Therefore, CSing a Paladin renders him or her USELESS for the duration. Every other healing class has another school of magic to use if one gets locked out. Counterspell a Priest heal, he can Mana Burn and vise versa. Counterspell a Regrowth, a Druid can still Moonfire/Starfire or Decurse or Shapeshift into any form and use any form ability. Counterspell a Lesser Healing Wave, and get Frost Shocked. Counterspell a Holy Light... can't cast a seal, can't judge a person, can't switch auras, can't Divine Shield, can't BoP, can't cleanse, can't bless, can't HoJ, can't taunt (a pet), can't do ANYTHING except Auto Attack....
- Limited Mobility... self explanatory, but I'd like to point out that Druids take mobility to an extremely unfair level that none of the other healers can even come close to.
- Drinking nerf in 2.4:
"The amount of mana regenerated now ramps up, so you will see little or no mana regen the first few seconds and then it will increase as the duration continues. " -Hortus http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... =1&sid=1#8
"[edit] Time changed from 4 to 6 seconds, original information was incorrect." -Drysc
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... &sid=1#156
Wow, thanks Blizzard! It was already hard enough to keep up with mana from all the things posted previously in this thread, but now you have to nerf drinking, too? What the hell are you trying to do? Extinct Paladins from 2s and 3s completely? We already have a hard enough time competing, stop nerfing us for crying out loud... even if its indirectly.
Conclusion, and how to fix Paladins: Paladins have been nerfed into oblivion because everyone cried about them being "overpowered". Now, in conjunction with other classes being buffed, Paladins have become.... useless.
Any of the following would be much welcomed (not to mentioned badly needed) changes, in order of importance:
1. Give us some form of instant cast healing... any will do. A HoT, an instant, some sort of shield...
2. Rebuff Illumination -OR- Reitemize the gear with less spell crit and more Mp5.
3. Buff our talent that increases the chance people don't remove our spells (Stoicism) to 50-100%, for all Blessings and Judgements. It can stay in Prot.
4. Buff HoJ. Lower the cooldown, or make it unresistable -OR- make Repentance baseline.
5. Buff Cleanse. Buff it to remove 2 debuffs per cleanse, or add in a talent in the Holy Tree to do that, along with an increased chance to cleanse.
The Paladin community is in pain, Blizzard. Changes need to happen.
Updated
1/17 - Minor revision
1/20 - Minor revision
2/11 - Original post of the 4th thread was deleted, and some information was lost.
2/12 - Added a section on the 2.4 drinking nerf.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 7047&sid=1
Second post:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 4154&sid=1
Third post:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 2035&sid=1
Fourth post (OP deleted by a Blue):
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 8132&sid=1
Fifth post:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 3800&sid=1
Hey look! 6 threads! I totally didn't see this one coming at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Blizzard. The 9 or so nerf patches since arenas came out have been lovely. Everything useful that a Paladin had, or was unique for, has been nerfed into the ground. Everything, EVERYTHING a Paladin had has been nerfed either by weakening the ability, or buffing other classes to negate it.
The Problem with Paladins:
- Divine Shield used to be the lifeline of a Paladin. Now Druids can spam an ability that renders it useless (by which I mean... theres now an overpowered CC from a HEALING class that we can't bubble out of), and Priests can just dispel it. Past that, once its been used, a Paladin is 100% DEFENSELESS. Literally. Go on a Paladin after he bubbles, and he or she won't be able to do a damn thing. Zero. Ziltch. Nada.
- Blessing of Freedom was too unique and useful to be left alone, so it needed a longer cooldown obviously... lets ignore the fact a bunch of classes can remove it... purge, dispel, arcane shot, spell steal, devour magic. The biggest problem I have with this nerf... is the same problem I have with the Illumination nerf. Nothing else was changed to compensate, and therefore, was a complete and utter nerf... while buffing other classes to further negate it. Guardian's Favor needed to be changed to REDUCE THE COOLDOWN on BoF, rather than increase the duration. Increasing the duration is USELESS if its removed shortly after being put on.
- Blessing of Sacrifice... wow... I originally thought that no one ever complained about this... but I was wrong.. It was probably one of the most balanced tools a Paladin had.... but you know what? Lets just slap on a 30 second cooldown for no reason, and still make it just as easy to remove as freedom. The top 3 most common (and by common, I also mean spammable) CCs without a cooldown are Fear, Sheep, and Cyclone. People cried that having a Paladin "immune" to CCs was overpowered, and that was the justification for putting a hefty cooldown on it. WRONG. Look closely. BoS doesn't do ANYTHING for 2 out of the 3 most common forms of CC. This nerf was not only unwarranted, but increased other classes abilities to lock down the most easily locked down class in the game.
- Illumination... so effin OP. Specing for a useful regen talent? No way, not allowed. Lets nerf that in half. Then, after that, lets NOT reitemize anything. So... Paladins still have 0 Mp5, and now their spell crits give half as much back. Great idea. For the nit pickers, yes... its 60%, not 50%. The message is still clear. Illumination is a poor form of mana regen in Arenas these days. Even if it was still 100%, that doesn't really help when you get drained to hell, and you couldn't do a damn thing about it. Illumination could be 500%, but it doesn't really matter when it takes 10 seconds to regen enough mana for a Flash of Light.
- No Passive Regen or Regen cooldowns.... Like mentioned in the previous section, the nerfed Illumination is all the Paladins get in terms of mana regen. All of the Paladin PvP gear (minus misc healing items, like rings and trinkets) have ZERO Mp5. Therefore, a Paladin has very little Mp5, and can only actively regen if healing. This means that the only way a Paladin can regen mana... is by using it. Not only that, but you get back LESS mana now, making Illumination a horrible talent... especially now that most teams can drain in some way. Also, every other class has regen cooldowns. Priests have Shadow Fiend, Druids have Innervate, and Shamans have Mana Tide Totem and Water Shield. Wheres the Paladin equivalent?
- Cleanse... never nerfed, but indirectly weakened after other class buffs. The fact that this ability costs more than a Flash of Light, only removes one debuff, and usually doesn't even WORK because other classes have talents to resist dispelling. This ability has become almost obsolete. If I get Viper Stung, with 5 stacks of scorpion poison and any other misc debuffs... I might as well not even bother cleansing. I'll just be wasting more mana. Heres a perfect example. I was in AV when this happened, but its the same principles as Viper Sting... but worse.
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2717 ... ailxh0.jpg
- Hammer of Justice... one minute cooldown, resists over half the time (people have talents and racials). Useless ability. Never works when you need it to, and its the only interrupt or escape talent that Paladins have. Priests have AoE fear and Mind Control (sometimes Silence), Druids can cyclone/roots/bash/maim/travel form, Shamans can Frost Shock, Earth Shock, and Earthbind totem...
- Holy Shock.... Three times the mana cost of flash, heals for less, and has a 15 second cooldown. Flash already heals for nothing... let alone with MS/wound poison.
- Plate Armor... We have the lowest HP of the 4 healing classes, and are the easiest to lock down... we might as well be in cloth. This is confirmed to be true. Look it up yourself.
- Heals... Holy Light is the only viable healing spell in arenas. Flash of Light is too weak, and not enough to keep people alive... especially when being crowd controlled and when fighting Wounding Poison or MS. Therefore, Paladins lose their mana efficiency that is associated with Flash of Light... PLUS they're working with nerfed Illumination AND multiple mana burning abilities... goodbye all Paladin efficiency.
- Heals... or lack thereof... No instant casts, shields, or HoTs... makes arena healing a joke. Not only are we EASILY locked down through abilities that increase cast time, but most classes have ways to interrupt healing, leaving the Paladin exposed and potentially useless for long periods of time. Furthermore, you must be in LoS of the person for every heal you cast, making you an easy target for all sorts of mana burns.
- Being Counterspelled/Kicked/Pummeled... not only common, and very easy to apply to a Paladin... but doing so locks the Paladin out of EVERY ABILITY HE HAS... including switching auras, even. Therefore, CSing a Paladin renders him or her USELESS for the duration. Every other healing class has another school of magic to use if one gets locked out. Counterspell a Priest heal, he can Mana Burn and vise versa. Counterspell a Regrowth, a Druid can still Moonfire/Starfire or Decurse or Shapeshift into any form and use any form ability. Counterspell a Lesser Healing Wave, and get Frost Shocked. Counterspell a Holy Light... can't cast a seal, can't judge a person, can't switch auras, can't Divine Shield, can't BoP, can't cleanse, can't bless, can't HoJ, can't taunt (a pet), can't do ANYTHING except Auto Attack....
- Limited Mobility... self explanatory, but I'd like to point out that Druids take mobility to an extremely unfair level that none of the other healers can even come close to.
- Drinking nerf in 2.4:
"The amount of mana regenerated now ramps up, so you will see little or no mana regen the first few seconds and then it will increase as the duration continues. " -Hortus http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... =1&sid=1#8
"[edit] Time changed from 4 to 6 seconds, original information was incorrect." -Drysc
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... &sid=1#156
Wow, thanks Blizzard! It was already hard enough to keep up with mana from all the things posted previously in this thread, but now you have to nerf drinking, too? What the hell are you trying to do? Extinct Paladins from 2s and 3s completely? We already have a hard enough time competing, stop nerfing us for crying out loud... even if its indirectly.
Conclusion, and how to fix Paladins: Paladins have been nerfed into oblivion because everyone cried about them being "overpowered". Now, in conjunction with other classes being buffed, Paladins have become.... useless.
Any of the following would be much welcomed (not to mentioned badly needed) changes, in order of importance:
1. Give us some form of instant cast healing... any will do. A HoT, an instant, some sort of shield...
2. Rebuff Illumination -OR- Reitemize the gear with less spell crit and more Mp5.
3. Buff our talent that increases the chance people don't remove our spells (Stoicism) to 50-100%, for all Blessings and Judgements. It can stay in Prot.
4. Buff HoJ. Lower the cooldown, or make it unresistable -OR- make Repentance baseline.
5. Buff Cleanse. Buff it to remove 2 debuffs per cleanse, or add in a talent in the Holy Tree to do that, along with an increased chance to cleanse.
The Paladin community is in pain, Blizzard. Changes need to happen.
Updated
1/17 - Minor revision
1/20 - Minor revision
2/11 - Original post of the 4th thread was deleted, and some information was lost.
2/12 - Added a section on the 2.4 drinking nerf.
Counterspell a Holy Light... can't cast a seal, can't judge a person, can't switch auras, can't Divine Shield, can't BoP, can't cleanse, can't bless, can't HoJ, can't taunt (a pet), can't do ANYTHING except Auto Attack....
geez get season 3 sword or mace and do 500 dmg
ps paladins need to get buffed tho worst healing and boring class ever
geez get season 3 sword or mace and do 500 dmg
ps paladins need to get buffed tho worst healing and boring class ever
yeah that's what I feel. I am switching into blessing of wisdom more and more often when I play dragni in 5v5.
Also about the lockdown.... it's insane how well you can be locked down.
CS (grrrr)
Spell lock
Kick
pummel
even worse if Curse of tongues is applied....
Chain fearing or polymorphed like woah isn't unusual either....
But other than that I think it's a fun class to play in pvp (when you aren't interupted or locked down
)
Also about the lockdown.... it's insane how well you can be locked down.
CS (grrrr)
Spell lock
Kick
pummel
even worse if Curse of tongues is applied....
Chain fearing or polymorphed like woah isn't unusual either....
But other than that I think it's a fun class to play in pvp (when you aren't interupted or locked down
)Krita säger:
Utan din penis i min röv känner jag mig halv
Utan din penis i min röv känner jag mig halv