A warlock who is ashamed ( help mages is his message)

[Fenz]

http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.htm ... 9867&sid=1

He is from a top guild

A Warlock's Endgame Perspective of TBC

PVP
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I'm pretty happy with the arena as it proves to be a lot of fun and opens world of warcraft to the esports scene. It also provides an option for more casual players to actually accomplish something in this game, and watch their characters gear up to be better week by week. All in all this is something that I'd like to congratulate blizzard for, very well done and especially the rating system seems to work brilliant.

As a warlock in pvp, I find myself undergeared with my pve gear and mighty 6.7k hp (lol), but that's the way it should be - a clear difference between pve and pvp. Obviously I can stack up some stam gear aswell and try to balance a bit, but that requires some more farming of battlegrounds and some serious work with my arena team, which I obviously don't have time for. A warlock just seems very balanced from my point of view, with the quite limited arenaplay I've done. Making fear break a bit easier seems quite reasonable but I doubt it will change that much, at least for alliance warlocks. The outdoor pvp zones also actually seem to be working on my realm, even though I've never participated myself.

PVE
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Okey now.. I'm sick and tired of PVE in it's current form. Every encounter we reach is just a question about "what's bugged here?". Lurker, Vashj, Al'ar are the most obvious encounters, but there are a lot of other encounters that still need tuning.

When TBC was released and my guild made our way to Gruul's Lair, I was pretty happy with the difficulty of Maulgar (seemed to be okey for the first boss), but Gruul just appeared to be impossible. During the first days of attempts, we kept asking ourselves if there's some gimmick to the fight and trying different ideas to prevent shatter damage etc. In the end we managed to take him down just by good execution and exessive potting, and ofcourse the feeling was great. A month later he gets nerfed... nerfed to the point that we're having competitions on who can kill the maintank with shatter, and movies are popping up of 15 manned gruul. The challenge was lost. Same can be said about Magtheridon.

Sure, I agree that Gruul was a lot too hard to begin with. You obviously can't expect the 2nd boss you face in expansion to be similar in difficulty to something in AQ40. But why make it so hard to begin with? To annoy the more hardcore guilds? Vashj in her current form is probably only killable by 10 guilds in the world, if people could actually be arsed to keep attempting her. An upcoming nerf is unavoidable, but yet there she remains. Currently it feels like the endgame bosses are there only to block the most hardcore raiders from progressing too fast, it feels like Blizzard has realized the huge gap between a guild like Nihilum and a more casual guild, and are building content for Nihilum only, so they can nerf it after they've had 25 lifeless geeks throwing their head into a wall repeatedly until it breaks (I'm a lifeless geek myself so no offence against Nihilum).

Why not just release all content nerfed from start? You would have hardcore guilds progressing through the easier instances, and probably completing Gruul's, SSC and The Eye within the first month of raiding, but you would have Hyjal ready, a harder instance, to slow progress a bit, not to mention the hyped Black Temple - The new Naxx. Currently there are tons of guilds that just wait for nerfs before they're going to bother attempting SSC.

Did I mention that the awards are horrible? There's only one item that has offered me a pve upgrade in SSC so far, that's how terrible it is. Raidleaders are asking me why I'm saving up so much dkp? Because there's nothing to spend it on except downgrades. Sure the feeling of beating a new boss(and in my case quite early) is astonishing but.. 99% of the wow population will never experience the same content that we're fighting now. Loot / effort is just so wrong at it's current state, but I guess it will be alright when the nerf comes. Because it will come. Too bad I'm fighting now.

I'm not even going to go into a discussion about the consumable focus that TBC has offered so far, since it's apparently being taken care of.

Warlocks in PVE
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So let's sum it up.

Warlocks have more hp than other classes.
Warlocks do more damage than other classes.
Add one more warlock to the raid and the dmg from all the warlocks increase.
Warlocks give multiple raidboosting debuffs.
Warlocks need a bit of heals to do damage - give them a shadowpriest and problem solved.

I'm honestly ashamed of playing my class at the moment. Sure I'm #1 or #2 on damage meters all the time (competing with other locks), but the competition is just non-existant. How fun is it that I can crit for 9k+ with a shadowbolt (2.5sec cast) when mages crit for 5k with a (3sec cast) fireball. My guild raids with 5 warlocks and 2 mages. If there was no sheepable trash we would probably not bring any mages at all. So far I have NEVER seen another class than a warlock on top of damage in any given fight in TBC.
I never liked the debuffer - bring two locks for cos and coe - situation warlocks had before The Burning Crusade but currently it's just hilarious. A warlock can make the boss hit for 5% less, Take 10% (and the lowered resistance) more dmg from frost, shadow, fire and arcane damage, and around 8% more from melee damage, and giving your group 1k more health, while still being on the absolute top of damage meters.

I feel sorry for our mages. Making Al'ar fire-immune and forcing them to respec every week doesn't make things much brighter. Remaining frost or arcane for the other bosses just doesn't seem like a reasonable option at the moment. I'm fully firespecced myself and do 100% firedamage in a normal raid, but on Al'ar I end up #1 or #2 spamming shadowbolts with the very same talents. Fair? No.

I'm bored playing my warlock, getting everything for granted, ending up top on damage with my eyes closed. I rolled the class a year ago because I thought it would offer some challenge in terms of pet controll and... hate to admit it... dominate in pvp, while still being an enjoyable damageclass to play in raiding dungeons. I was proud when I reached high on meters in Naxxramas, proud to the point that I actually took screenshots every time I beat a mage in damage. Sadly there were some problems with the class in naxxramas aswell, for example the threat wall that stopped us from ever really doing the damage we had potential to output. I remember myself saying that a ring with +500 spelldmg wouldn't improve my damage, while a ring with solely -1% threat would.

I like the idea of my spec (0 / 21 / 40), sacrificing all debuffing and raidbuffing for the sake of damage, and it is my personal belief that a warlock speccing my way should be able to compete on the top of the damage meters. The current situation is that any warlock will end up top5 on meters, no matter the spec. This has to be "tuned". A warlock functioning as a debuffer / buffer should not be able to outperform other classes in pure dps. Reducing the damage our dots do, and reducing the amount gained through Shadow and Flame to 10% or 15% would be one out of many ways of solving the issue, and it would probably be a welcome change to pvp (obviously not by most affliction warlocks).

Since I'm not a friend of nerfing I'd rather see other classes, especially mages getting buffed to do comparable damage, preferably more, than a warlock. We ran a competition on Dr.Boom with a fellow mage, and even though he could keep on dps:ing while I was standing out of health / mana, having used a healthstone and bandage, I still ended up doing a lot more damage. With no potions, and only curse of elements and improved scorch up, I could output 1400 dps on Dr.Boom until I was fully out of health and mana, while the mage reached around 950 dps at his best attempt.
We then switched characters (we were at a LAN), and ended up with me doing 850dps on the mage, and my friend doing 1200 dps on my warlock. Our gear is equal.
Please make mages more usefull in pve, because currently they're as fragile as a feather, and don't do damage that is comparable to a warlock's.

EDIT
Screenshot of a warlock with my spec critting for 9.1k on a non vulnerable boss:
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/7826 ... 705bs8.jpg

Movies to prove my point, not to get ePeen:

Forte Vs. Al'ar
http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=39100 - Firespecced, shooting shadowbolts.

Forte Vs. Void Reaver
http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=37697 - Same spec. Moving around, not using dots.

Forte Vs. Fathom-Lord Karathress
http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=37061 - Pure dps fight.

[Lateralus]

Nice reading.. agreeing with most of it

[Betdel]

His comments on raid dps sounds very strange to me since SM rouges are topping the damagelist every time.

[Lateralus]

His comments on raid dps sounds very strange to me since SM rouges are topping the damagelist every time.

maybe but no warlocks in SM got that imba build tho :p

[Betdel]

So far I have NEVER seen another class than a warlock on top of damage in any given fight in TBC.

All locks have that imba spec it seems???
Or he is just exaggerating.
I believe he is.

[Lateralus]

So far I have NEVER seen another class than a warlock on top of damage in any given fight in TBC.

All locks have that imba spec it seems???
Or he is just exaggerating.
I believe he is.

well afaik you can deal INSAAAAAAAAAANE amounts of dmg with that build (requires a pet to be sacrificed tho so no imp buff)

never compared my build to that one tho but i would guess that that one outdmgs all warlock builds atleast

[zNow]

It's mostly about group setup. If rogues have an enhancement sham+feral druid in their group, they're perfectly able to outdps locks with any given specc imo.

And about the QQing of instances being too hard at first and then getting huge nerfs; that's Blizzards way of splitting hardcore guilds from "casuals" imo. At first bosses are extremly hard and require complete buffing, but hardcore guilds still master them and keep on progressing in PvE. Casuals will percieve those bosses as a cockblock and their progression will be slowed down for a while. Like that there will always be challenging fights for the nerds and a bit later on the same bosses will be a masterable challenge for ze casuals!
Whatsoever there is no excuse for fights being fucked up ala Lady Vashj.

[sneek]

Warlock can get a high synergy straightup nuking tree (Destruction).
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=IVMr0oZZxx0trMtAuAo

Key talents in there are...
- Improved Shadowbolt (shadowbolt crits give +20% shadowdamage for the next 4 direct shadow damage attacks that hit that target)
- Ruin (one point, like Shaman, to increase the amount of damage any critical hit does)
- Emberstorm (+10% damage for Fire spells, this is one of their biggest nukes that has synergy with a Mage's Improved Scorch)
- Soul Leech (will grant Warlocks mana for damage they inflict)
- Shadow and Flame (+20% spellcoefficient. This is huge since the Warlock one's weren't nerfed and nerfed during beta, whereas the Mage equivalents were)

That and warlocks basically get double or even triple the benefit from Shadowpriests' group-regenerative capabilities since Locks convert health to mana.

Running out of mana is the biggest culprit for raiding.
Most of our mages run out of fumes (and elemental shaman/boomkin for that matter!).
Most non-warlocks are stuck consuming Super Manas every 2 minutes to provide "reasonably competitive dps".

Totally broken imo; but Mage's are not alone in that, definately not.

Some of the synergy between Shadowpriests and Warlocks will be nerfed, but it's maybe shaving 2% off their damage dealt.
Not nearly enough from what I can tell from damagemeters on EJs.

[Lateralus]

Just a minor correction..

Warlock can get a high synergy straightup nuking tree (Destruction).
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=IVMr0oZZxx0trMtAuAo

Its This build that warlock referrs 2 .. wich gives with a sacced imp or succubus another 15% dmg increase to either shadow or fire. And i think id choose backlash for 3% more crit over soulleech but maybe soullech works better now then when i was destru.

[sneek]

And about the QQing of instances being too hard at first and then getting huge nerfs; that's Blizzards way of splitting hardcore guilds from "casuals" imo. At first bosses are extremly hard and require complete buffing, but hardcore guilds still master them and keep on progressing in PvE.

It's certainly a lot better done then the fiasco that C'Thun was considered to be.
Heck, according to an audio interview of Nihilum of WoWradio.com they say Vashj's only doable if you pot up to the max and then execute flawlessly.
Seems like they learned their lesson of implementing a true block like C'Thun (who provided extremely high quality gear that still can be used today, at 70 - tier 4 equivalency).

My idea behind this madness is, though, that they're looking to output one expansion per year. Or plan to. Whatever.
Sure it'll probably get delayed by 3 months again, but they strive to hit 12 months per expansion.
This is the timetable concept I was talking about!
Yes, they downplay it but still it's a movement inside Blizzard to make it happen.

Which means they'll need to finish up BC right now; that's why there's such a huge patch coming up finishing up Hiyal and Black Temple.
After that the majority of the team will focus on designing new content while only minor tweaks are made towards the live game.

Anyway, 12 to 15 months per new expansion. Subtact two to three months to ding 70 and get some proper blues to replace the crud you painstakingly farmed in BWL.
That's 9 to 12 months for all raiding tiers.
T4: 3 months for Karazhan, Gruul and Magtheridon.
T5: 3 months for Serpentshrine and Tempest Keep.
T6: 3 months for Black Temple and Mount Hijyal or however it's spelled.
To farm all instances' endboss at least three times for attunement purposes.

Four months per tier if you favor the 15 months per expansion concept: 16 resets per tier.
I have no doubt in the world Nihilum would've been done with BC by now if they had all the content in and tweaked similarly to how the end of wow 1.x looked like.

It needs to last and tuning some things too high -like Gruul, Magtheridon, Hydross, Vashj, Kael'thas, Phoenix who are all gateway mobs or even keying requirements- is the only way they can insure content doesn't get outplayed instantly.

[Maugetar]

His comments on raid dps sounds very strange to me since SM rouges are topping the damagelist every time.

these guys seem to be at a completly diffrent stage in the game than we are tho, and as mentioned here, no lock in our guild has this specc. Closest would be meek i guess.

[Nargaroth]

Agree with much of the original post, i really think that DPS is fucked-up, last Magtheridon i used like 10-12 mana pots or something just to be able to continue nuking and that sucks royally. I agree with Maug aswell, cant really compare us to them raid-setup wise, and i also think mentality-wise.

[sneek]

Yep, if you read the warlock's thread fully you see how Forté plays the ballgame.
Raid stacking was in the norm in Naxx as well.

So getting 8 warriors for the four horsemen, having only one or at most two warlocks, just one hunter, overrepresenting mages due to Ignite.
Whatever works the most efficient way they'll do it.
Same goes for Nihilum btw - stacking holy paladins and shadow priests, only one token Hunter for misdirect and as loot funnel.

Goes with the Achiever mentality that plays to win. No scrubs allowed.

If you're interested in more information on Forte and their view on the game you might want to poke some folks in <The Casual Club> Horde guild on our server for some information on that.
They seem to have two "retired" Forte players in ém.

[Lateralus]

His comments on raid dps sounds very strange to me since SM rouges are topping the damagelist every time.

these guys seem to be at a completly diffrent stage in the game than we are tho, and as mentioned here, no lock in our guild has this specc. Closest would be meek i guess.

thats the thing about this spec. its i think very best for raid dps.. but its meh in farming and meh in pvp (tho most builds are decent in pvp for locks )

meek is close but doesnt have sacrifice pet for 15% more dmg

[zNow]

Could maybe some PvE whore lock try and specc this way for an upcoming raid?
Preferably Magtheridon since we can and should pot up there and it will most likely be a kill.