+ hit vs decreasing mobs resistances

[Fenz]

Someone made this comment on Thott about it:

This off-hand doesn't suck. The effects of lowering a targets resistance even by 10 is huge!!! It's equviliant to +3% Hit chance with spells, plus it can increase the amount of damage you do with spells (in the sense that your target is resisting some or most of it).

You see tons of equipement with +%crit and +%hit, but you don't see much -magic resistance. You know why?.... because it's freaking insanely godly good. The fact that you DEed this, show's not only how stupid you are for aggreeing with the disenchant, but it shows how suicidially stupid your guild is. Blizzard is giving you the tools to finish off higher bosses, and you turn them into common candy crap just because you don't understand the power of it. Did your guild disenchant the Eye of Moam too? or did someone in your guild have atleast an IQ of 45 and enough understanding how wicketly good -magic resistance is?

http://www.thottbot.com/?ccb=1&v=759967

I tend to agree because Naxx has a lot of stuff that lowers a targets resistance but I can't really find good testing evidence about it. Did any of you professional forumsurfers found any interesting info?

[Gupim]

-10resistance = +3%

so then i would have +12% to hit from AVring and WSGtrinket
sorry but i dont buy that
the wsg trinket would then have 7sta and equivalent to 6%hit and that would make it the best trinket in game (PvE), hands down.
the AVring would have sta 1crit and 6hit, best ring in game
i belive that its good but not that good, so the question is still out there, at least for me.

[SerXes]

+hit and resist is calculated as two different things from what ive read

This can be a bit hard to differentiate between with binary spells but should be pretty easy to spot on others.

Think i read that white resists are due to hit and yellow due to resist.

Havnt really checked it out in further detail but seems pretty strange if +hit would be so crappy compared to -resist to target as well as why they would have different names for the same thing.

But hey they managed to create the +dmg system which sucks beyond comprehension so guess anything is possible.

[Fenz]

-10resistance = +3%

so then i would have +12% to hit from AVring and WSGtrinket
sorry but i dont buy that
the wsg trinket would then have 7sta and equivalent to 6%hit and that would make it the best trinket in game (PvE), hands down.
the AVring would have sta 1crit and 6hit, best ring in game
i belive that its good but not that good, so the question is still out there, at least for me.

Yeah I find that odd too. But why is Naxx riddled with the stuff? We demand answers Lateralus!

[Gupim]

all quotes from the wow site

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/basics/spells.html

Items: +Spell Hit Chance
+1% spell hit chance increases the base chance for a spell to land against a target by 1%

If your target is the same level as you, a spell has a base chance to hit of 96%.

If the target is +1 level compared to you: 95%

+2 levels: 94%
+3 levels: 83% if the target is a monster, 87% if the target is a player.
+4 levels: monster: 72% player: 80%
+5 levels: monster: 61% player: 73%
Etc...

If you wear a +1% spell hit chance item, the above percentages will increase by 1. +2% gives +2.
Etc...

For binary spells only, there is an additional modifier for the resistance of the victim to your particular spell school: fire, frost, shadow, nature, arcane. That modifier is multiplied by your hit chance to get your actual chance to land. This is done with binary spells only, because they never do partial damage.

Example:

Eyonix the Mage (level 60) fires a frost bolt at Yeti of Doom (level 63). Eyonix is also wearing a total of +6% spell hit gear. Yeti of Doom has frost resistance such that he takes 50% from level 60 frost attacks. So, here's the hit calculation:

0.83 (83% for +3 levels monster) + 0.06 (+6% spell hit) = 0.89
0.89*0.5 (50% damage from frost) = 0.445.


The game will roll a number between 0 and 1, and if it's less than 0.445, the frost bolt will hit for full damage. Otherwise, a resist message will appear.

2nd Example:

After the resist, Eyonix decides to fire a fireball at Yeti of Doom. Eyonix still has +6% spell hit. Fireball is not a binary spell. Here's the calculation:

0.83+0.06= 0.89

The game will roll a number between 0 and 1, and if its less than 0.89, the fireball will hit. Otherwise, a resist message will appear. After the fireball lands, the game will then apply spell resistance to determine a partial resist, if any. Assuming the yeti also has 50% fire resistance, on average, 50% of the damage will be resisted.

I hope that illuminates the impact of +spell hit gear on magical combat.

most raid bosses counts as lvl63 mobs afaik, that will say, wo talents/gear you have a 83% chance to hit them and need +16%hit to get 99% (full) chance to hit them with spells.
Im having 5/5 in suppression so i have a total of ~+14 hit with dots but the bolts is still my main damage source so im going for more +hit


http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/bas ... ances.html

When hit by a spell, you have two chances to resist the spell. The first chance is based on your level. If you are much higher level than the attacking caster, you will have a significant chance to resist the caster's spell, but if you are much lower level, you will have a minimal chance to resist the spell (minimum of 1%). If you make this resistance chance, you are completely unaffected by the spell.
The second chance to resist is based on your resistance score and the level of the caster. The higher your resistance score in relation to the level of the attacking caster, the higher your average resistance percentage, up to a maximum of 75%. Against most spells, this resistance percentage is the straight % chance to completely resist the spell. Against direct-damage spells (spells that deliver their full damage upon impact, such as Fireball, Mind Blast, and Earth Shock), this resistance is the percentage of damage you will resist on average.

When you are hit by a direct-damage spell, you have a chance to resist 100%, 75%, 50%, 25%, or 0% of the spell's damage, depending on your resistance score in relation to the level of the attacking caster. Your average percentage of damage resisted is the weighted average of your resistance percentages for each level of damage resistance (100%, 75%, 50%, 25%, and 0%). Using, as an example, a fire resistance score of 250 vs. a level-50 mage's fire spell, you would on average resist roughly 75% of the damage of that spell (as can be deduced by calculating the weighted average for the corresponding column in the example table below). To further the example, if you had fire resistance of 100, you would, on average, resist roughly 30% of the spell's damage.

As far as -resistance goes im still not sure.
Fenz your saying that the items in naxx has lots of -resistance, true, but our plagueheart set (that all real warlocks already has some part of) has one part with -10resistance(legs) and 3with +hit(head/shoulders/robe)
http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/itemset.html?setid=529

Doomcaller on the other hand (tier2,5) has 3parts with a total of -40resistance and 2parts with +hit
http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/itemset.html?setid=499

[Maugetar]

+hit % is for pve mainly.. U dont get ANY bonus having more than +4%hit in a pvp situation with a char with the same lvl as u. It is still discussed however if u can have a 100% hit margain in a pvp encounter, if thats the case, a 4% hit chance would do it. +Hit % has nothing to do with resistance as in the elemental resistance that we speak of (frost, fire shadow etc). Its a "default" resistance of sort that everybody has, and it is built on the character / mob /boss level. If i remember this correctly, having like 11% hit on a lvl 63 mob (most bosses we encounter these days are) is enough to hit 99% of the time. But then the "elemental" resistance kicks in. Resistance however is far better imo in most scenarios, as it works on both fronts equally good.

[Gupim]

+hit % is for pve mainly.. U dont get ANY bonus having more than +4%hit in a pvp situation with a char with the same lvl as u. It is still discussed however if u can have a 100% hit margain in a pvp encounter, if thats the case, a 4% hit chance would do it. +Hit % has nothing to do with resistance as in the elemental resistance that we speak of (frost, fire shadow etc). Its a "default" resistance of sort that everybody has, and it is built on the character / mob /boss level. If i remember this correctly, having like 11% hit on a lvl 63 mob (most bosses we encounter these days are) is enough to hit 99% of the time. But then the "elemental" resistance kicks in. Resistance however is far better imo in most scenarios, as it works on both fronts equally good.

Yes +hit is only good for PvE after 4 (or 5) but from what i can make out of the wowsites text its two calculations.

First if you hit, here +hit gear is good
then resistance, then recistance gear is good.

-resistance doesnt help you to hit the target only to do more(full) damage _if_ the spell hits, ofc if the mob has lots of resistance the spell can be resisted even if the spell hits.

[Gaar]

so +hit to spells have no affection in pvp? does that apply to +1 hit with physical attacks too?

[Morlog]

5 +hit in melee is all you need to never miss since 5 is the default misschance for melee

how many shots do you miss in pvp gaar since your gear i riddled with to hit? you need what is it +9 or so to never miss a tranq on bosses? or atleast ahve a 99.98% missrate or am i off on the ranged to hit?

however +5 for melee in pvp = no misses if you use 1h+shield or 2h
with dual wield the missrate is 17% so you need more +hit if you dual wield (i just know im going to regrett informing you hunters about this -> more of you going for the warrior 2h)

[sneek]

It does Gaar. Against L60 targets you'd need 4% to hit, according to a blue post made several months back.

Common sense though kind of tells us that we'd need 5% to hit with spells in order to make sure every spell hits on L60 targets (since melee to hit works just like that).

Now I read somewhere, and have now found the link, that additional resistance to your school of magic will reduce the chance to hit as well as provide 25%/50%/75% damage mitigation based on a random roll versus the target's resistances.
I'll try to find it - think it was with the introduction of the -resist mod to the game.

So a "resist" in white means you MISSED.
And a "resist" in yellow means you got hosed because of resistances.

Which implies that %to-hit with spells caps out at 4% for PvP targets of even level, and then you'll want -resist mods to counteract silly things like +10 Racial Resists and +27 from Mark of the Wild as well as sporadic resistance items (tier 1, tier 2).

Guessing that with -50 blanket resistance you're doing fine for normal targets.

[Gupim]

These two calculations are separate - no amount of +% to hit gear will change your yellow resist chance, and no amount of spell penetration will change your white resist chance.

from the link sneek had


guess ill need to start to look if im getting most yellow or white resists

[Morlog]

write a mod that gives you a cute counter in the corner counting white and yellow resists?

[Gaar]

well, got +7% hit and I've missed 60 shot out of 15k shots or something like that, puts me at 0.4% to miss...?

never missed a raptorstrike, never missed a scattershot, 0.1% with aimed 0.2 with multishot and so on...

[sneek]

What Gupim said (my earlier post was confusing);

-Resist items only reduce YELLOW resists (binary spell resist result only iirc).
To hit with spells items only reduce WHITE resists.

This is for SPELLS btw, not physical damage that requires regular to-hit items that warriors, rogues and hunters like to use.
Or Shaman and Paladin that claim that "they have a dream!".

Though there's debate about Aimed Shot being a spell or whatnot kind of crap? -Whatever.

[Fenz]

http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/addo ... lysis.html