Source for the screenshots: http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums ... hp?t=56998edit: most of this information is up to date as of last friday/saturday. If I notice anything has changed I will talk about it.
If you're reading this the NDA must have dropped. Yay! So now we (beta testers and VN) are in the business of making every piece of information we can available.
So in this installment I'm going to tell you what I think of Warhammer. But first, why the hell should you care about what I have to say? Well, first off I was in the beta, and it would probably be prudent for you to read everything you can from testers. Secondly, I've been playing these games for a long time, and at the highest competitive level. I know unbalanced, overpowered, good/bad when I see it. By no means does that make my opinion the only one worth listening to, or even right. But its at least well informed.
So where to begin. I'm going to break this down into two main categories. The first is the overarching meaning of Warhammer: the world, the lore, and most importantly the rvr. Secondly I'm going to discuss the combat system/user interface and class interactions. Without giving it much though I can already tell you the first topic is full of wonderfulness and the second topic sucks. So theres your review.
Anyway, on to the substance.
Warhammer is about rvr, and you'll know it the second you log into the game. The flavor of the universe is strife, and its everywhere. Even in pve encounters you will usually be killing something from opposing factions. So lets talk about how rvr works.
You have two options, scenarios or open world.
Scenarios will likely be the first thing you play. In fact it can be the first thing you actually do after making a character and logging in since all it takes is clicking a button and you're queued up and ready to bust some heads. You can go around doing whatever it is you like to do and when the scenario is ready you receive a prompt asking if you are ready to join. Clicking yes will immediately port you in from anywhere in the world. When you finish you are ported back to exactly where you came from. It couldn't be easier.
Every tier has its own scenario. Some of the later tiers have a few to choose from but you wont have to worry about it until you hit around 30. The objective in these things is the standard fps fare. Capture and hold an objective and capture all objectives are the most common. The winner is rewarded with some extra exp and rps. Success also goes toward gaining control of the region the scenario is tied to.
Scenarios tend to be pretty zergy for the most part, but after the initial battle its easy to loop around the other side and pick people off as they try to run back to the zerg. I'm more interested in fightin' foos than standing in some red/blue circle anyway, so you can guess where I spend most of my time.
While scenarios offer instant gratification and are good fun, they are ultimately pretty shallow. Those of us that require more traditional (read: DAoC) rvr will want to make use of the open world rvr environments. Every zone has a least some rvr area that you can find by looking at your map (its shaded orange, don't confuse it with your quest markers). In the beginner zones these areas are pretty small and contain only 1 battlefield objective (flags basically. Click the objective and your side owns it. You get some rps for your troubles). The later zones have rvr areas that take up most of the land mass and contain a few keeps as well as a handful of objectives. The only complaint I have about this is that the zones are so small it takes about 30 seconds to run back if you die. It never really feels like you win a fight because the people you just killed are back to bothering you again before you get finished with their friends.
Rvr is very accessible and is a part of the game from the get go. Mythic always said, “War is everywhere.” and they meant it. Its also easy to get into whether you have only 20 minutes to do a scenario or all night to spend working on controlling an entire zone. Mythic really accomplished what it set out to do with rvr. Its wonderful, and I cant stress that enough..
So by now you've seen me talk about tiers and zones and may be a little confused about how the world is laid out. Also, Ive seen people speculating on how the world “is.” Does it have that “get lost in the field” feel to it as one person put it. In short, no. In long, it feels like you're being funneled down a valley the entire time. Which in my opinion is a bit of a disappointment.
You have 40 levels (excuse me, ranks) in War. Every 10 of which compromise their own tier. So tier 1 is 1-10. tier 2 10-20 and so on up through tier 4. Tiers 1-3 only have 2 zones each, split roughly half and half between the racial pairings (with some overlap for the world rvr areas). Tier 4 contains significantly more zones and also the capital cities.
But thats only half the truth because each racial pairing has everything I listed above (or will once all the cities are done). There are essentially 3 different worlds going on all at once. And thats the catch. Combined they make up a respectable area, but you're only in 1 tier out of 12 at any given time so the world feels very, very small.
Also, once you out level a tier you have no reason to ever go back to it (other than you crazies who want all the tome unlocks) so it becomes dead area. Low level players never get a chance to see high level players outside of the capital.
I also dislike the way everything is so linear. If you out level your area, run down the road a little ways and watch the numbers get bigger. There is very little encouragement for exploration and little in the way of finding an off the beaten path camp or public quest. The only ship in this sea of monotony is that you can bring up your alts up in a different place. Maybe you can pretend you're playing a different game.
To be fair, that is a little harsh. Mythic has made one great leap in the pve department at least, and thats the public quest system. All of you should already know what pqs are so ill just say they are really great. The bees knees. I can actually do something besides that WoWish, run quests until your eyes fall out nonsense. I can actually sit in relatively one spot, in a group (in an mmo, imagine that!), and kill stuff for exp and fat loot. I can actually take my eyes off the exp bar once in a while. Fun in pve, what a novel idea.
To sum up, War is about the best thing ever if you over look my small gripe about the world layout. The rvr is fantastic and the pve is not mind numbing. The classes are interesting. Hell even the artwork and music are stunning. The lore in Warhammer is decades old. Its rich and interesting, which makes for a great experience.
Unfortunately however, things are not all sunshine and puppies because now I'm going to talk about the combat system and UI. But first, an aside.
Everyone keeps making comparisons between War and WoW. Its a common problem. Every game from now until WoW 2 is going to be compared to WoW, its simply too damn big to ignore. And every player is going to wonder if their future game is going to sell out or not.
So why do people keep comparing the two? After playing Warhammer for an hour it took me half a bottle of whiskey to get that WoW taste out, thats why. Its not one big thing I can point to and say, “Ahah! This proves that War is just another WoW clone!” Its the tons and tons of little things. White/green/blue/purple item classes...seriously Mythic? Luckily this wont effect your game play outside of aesthetics for the most part, but you will spend a lot of time rolling your eyes.
Now that thats done with, on to my rant. I call it a rant because I've been sitting here staring at my cursor trying to think of how to not make it a rant. I got nothing.
When someone says “Warhammer combat system” people think “collision detection.” Its been proven. With science. So lets talk about that.
Collision detection is hilarious. Go load up any mmorpg, and even some fps's. Now go find yourself a good corner and strafe jump right the hell into it. That stuck feeling you're having...welcome to collision detection. Now it must be said that it isn't really that hard to make yourself un-stuck. In fact it makes it kind of nice that people cant just run around you.
The real problem arises because you collide with people on your own side. I know, I thought Mythic said enemy only collision detection too. Its there none the less. So imagine 12-20 people trying* (key word) to run down a narrow street. Pretty funny huh? Imagine everyone zoning into a scenario on the same spot and no one can move until the person at the bottom of the stack moves. (This has been fixed - Fenz) Did I mention you get stuck on peoples corpses? Aside from it being some satisfying revenge its pretty irritating.
Collision does have a saving grace though. It gets a little better every patch cycle. So while this is a big problem now, I wouldn't be surprised if its functional, or even working well in the future.
Another feature new to Warhammer is the defensive targeting system. This allows you to keep an offensive and defensive target at the same time so you don't have to change targets to heal and damage. Its a really good idea, but the implementation is lackluster, and the culprit is the general targeting system.
Its absolutely impossible to click target someone on the first try. The target boxes are small, a players name isn't included in them, and there seems to be a slight delay in the click registering. So take for example when I play a Disciple (a mele/healer hybrid). My bread and butter heal involves me smacking a target and healing my defensive target for 300% of the damage I deal. Problem is I cant get both people targeted in any reasonable amount of time because if I make one miss click I lose both targets. And its not just the disciple, many classes have abilities that drain something from the offensive target to the defensive. Its such a hassle that no one ever sees any benefit from them except the caster since if they have no defensive target the spell defaults to them. It has such a simple solution too. Make my defensive target not clear unless I select another defensive target. I have no idea why that option isn't in the game yet.
To continue with the trend of Warhammer gimmicks lets look at the auto face feature. The idea is pretty simple, when you cast something your character is supposed to auto turn to face your target, keeping them in line of sight. Thats great except just give me the /face command and Ill decide when I want to use it, thanks. As it is now Ill cast a heal and turn to face my offensive (wrong) target. With mele abilities you can never tell if you're going to face or not. But either way what happens is that you start to run and your character isn't moving the direction you want it to. Auto face just turns your character, not your camera. So now you have something to fight with besides those people with red names.
And don't get me started on the camera. It has auto snap back (yeah like that other game, except I think you could turn it off there) making targeting anyone behind you literally impossible.
Also, there is something about the global cool down people don't like (it has a delay in it and does not have a queue). I'm going to go ahead and say that half the current threads are on this very topic, so Ill leave it at that.
All in all this leaves us players spending more time fighting with the interface than with other players. Its beyond cumbersome but at least most of the problems have easy fixes. I just hope they get around to implementing them soon.
One good thing I can say about the interface is that it is very customizable. Everything can be moved and resized to about anything you want. Also I think the moding community will be able to make some serious improvements to the things that bother me with the HUD (like group/warband boxes and ability bars).
To focus more on the combat system; let me get everything out in the open at once. There is an overabundance of instant abilities (especially on healer classes. It feels like there are about 2 useful abilities with actual cast times), a lack of meaningful defensive crowd control (most of it is snares or stuns on dps classes, making it offensive cc), healers have no way to deal with burst damage, spell knock backs are nearly nonexistent except on the one useful healer spell with cast time (the 3 second big heal and equivalent), and mele classes bunny hop around like its their job.
Now that last one isn't really important, it just personally pisses me off. I expect my mmo combat to be decided by my use of abilities and understanding of what other classes are capable of, not who can hammer the space bar the fastest. I think this is going to be inherent in any system that doesn't penalize people for moving around or include a /stick command. The first solution is retarded and the second I understand has a large population of critics. Pick your poison.
The other points hint at a problem that is far more troubling. I have a serious concern that numbers are going to rule the day in Warhammer and that skill isn't going to account for much. Now its possible I could be completely off with this (I hope I'm wrong). All the rvr in beta is pretty much 20 solo people vs 20 other solo people so its hard to gage what a coordinated group could do. Still, it appears Its only possible for 1 group to lock down 3-4 people at once and still focus on healing. With nothing to stop the other people from doing damage, zerg surfing may be out of the question no matter who you are. It is possible that extending will work but with nothing to keep people from pushing and with all the instant abilities...I simply don't know. Now many of you will no doubt be happy about this and I can't really blame you. But deep down we all need games to be skill based. No one wants the side with the biggest zerg to win all the time. On the plus side the combat is pretty deep and I can definably see 6v6 being interesting.
Well thats all I think I need to say. Except for this, and with all my negativity it may shock you. Buy the game. For all its faults, the potential is still huge and it really is simply a good game. It isn't plagued with the problems all other problems mmos seem to have upon release, and its defiantly ready to ship. Also the two factions appear relatively balanced(!). Don't expect it to be monumental though. No one is going to perfect a genre overnight, but War is one step forward. And if managed properly I think can become something really great.
WAR NDA is lifted
WAR NDA is lifted
Some guy's review on the VN boards wich I think is a fair review:
Last edited by Fenz on 20 Aug 2008, 06:37, edited 1 time in total.
I ain't leaving without your soul and I am sober this time.
Another overview + classes:
Complete Class Overview From Beta Elder
-----------------------------------------
Introduction:
I received my Closed Beta invite back in August of 2007. When I first downloaded the client there were only two races available dwarf and greenskin and only a couple of classes in each race were playable. I have seen where the game has been and I have seen where it is now and I am utterly impressed with how far the game has come in only a year's time. Just about every single aspect of the game has improved beyond my wildest hopes and the game has turned into something truly epic.
Now that the NDA has been lifted, I wanted to give you all some of the information that I have accumulated over the last year of beta testing. This particular post will deal with all of the warhammer classes that you can choose from. Over the last year I have had a chance to play every single class to a greater or lesser extent. I wanted to share with you all the down-and-dirty of each class as I have played them.
If you have a question about something, PLEASE feel free to post and I will try to answer the best I can and add your answer to the "Answers" section.
-= DISCLAIMER =-
I am NOT an expert on every class. I am certain that there are MANY other beta testers who spent far more time with many of the classes than I did. However, I wanted to put information about my impressions on the warhammer classes as per my personal beta experience. Find an error in something I have stated? Please post a correction. ALSO, while I have played MANY MMO's over the years (starting with meridian 59, remember that one?) I am going to write this from a WoW point-of-view because it is the lowest common denominator for most mmo players.
CONTENTS:
Section I: General Class Mechanics
Section II: Order Classes Review
Section III: Destruction Classes Review
Section IV: Conclusion
Section V: Corrections and Answers
Section I: General Class Mechanics
-----------------------------------------
This section deals with mechanics that are common to EVERY class in Warhammmer Online. It’s these core mechanic that really allow you to individualize your character from everyone else in your class. There are MANY different configurations and lots of flexibility so having a unique character is very probable. Is this the end of the cookie cutter WoW style "builds"? We'll see...
Tome of Knowledge:
I'm not going to go into this too much because it is just so dang broad. Lets just say that it is really cool, keeps track of pretty much everything you have done, keeps statistics on what you have done, and enables you to quest from it all by itself if you so desire. It is not over-rated.
Progression and Leveling:
I'm sure you know by now that the max rank (level) is 40. In very early beta you had a rank 1-4 and a sub level 1-10 (hence 40 levels). But they ditched that early on, thank goodness. You gain experience many different ways, but mostly through quests. Unlike WoW, I have NEVER completed all the quests and had to resort to "grinding" to eek out that last bit of XP/levels before I can go to the next area. The areas flow one to another VERY smoothly. You CAN level via RvR by doing the scenarios over and over and completeing/re-completing the same quest over and over, but it seems to get pretty monotonous. Plus, some of the best gear at early levels comes from completeing PQ's and you would miss out on those. There are always PLENTY of quests to keep you busy in every area you go to.
The only thing I have done that you could count as "grinding" are the PQ's (public quests). In each chapter of the game there are a couple of Public Quests that you can complete. The PQs progress REALLY fast and very smooth the more people you have doing them. Normally you have to do a single public quest 3-4 times in order to accumulate enough influance points to redeem for your influance rewards back at the camp. But with each attemp you have a chance to win some good loot from the PQ itself, so it is worth it on many levels.
Quest System:
If there is one thing that Mythic got right (and believe me, its way more than one) it is the quest system. You never wonder where you need to go, or what you should be working on. If you played AoC then you get some glimpse of what Mythic has done. But AoC's was over-done and confusing. Warhammer has stuck a great balance between telling you what to do and where to go without making it sooooo dummy proof that you feel detached from the quests.
When you pick up a quest it adds it to the quest tracker on the right of your screen. It also highlights an area on your minimap and main map telling you GENERALLY where to go for the quest. You can hover over your quests on the right and it will tell you clearly just the objective you need to accomplish OR you can click it to open your tome of knowledge to read the complete quest details. It really works great, its non-intrusive, and you feel very involved in your quests.
Action Points:
This may be a well known mechanic, but I wanted to make sure that I spelled it out clearly for everyone so that they can understand how it works.
Warhammer Online does not use "mana" or "rage" that you must spend in order to execute your abilities. Instead ALL warhammer classes use Action Points. Your character has a set amount of Action Points that most actions will use. Once you run out of Action Points, you can't perform any actions. HOWEVER, your Action Points replenish pretty quickly (at the same rate in combat or out). This is mostly a mechanic for throttling your "burst" output.
Abilites/Spells:
I also wanted to spell this out for everyone because while it is very similar to WoW it also has some differences. The abilites themselves very much resemble the look and feel of other MMO's. They have a name, description, and attributes such as casting time, range, cost, etc. The major difference between the Warhammer ability system and the WoW ability system is that you do not buy "ranks" of abilites in Warhammer. In Warhammer you train the ability ONCE and then it gets better and better all by itself as you level. Also unlike WoW you will be training new abilities just about every level (with some exceptions, but you will only be training them ONE at a time.
One last difference between WoW and Warhammer abilities is that there are very few "utility" abilites in warhammer. Just about all your abilities will revolve around buffs/debuffs/and damage.
(abilities window screenshot)
Food and Drink:
NONE! Nope, no food or drink in Warhammer. Since you don't use "mana" like in WoW you WILL run out of action points. But action points always come back and within a few seconds of doing nothing, you will have a full action point bar. Health on the other hand currently only returns when you are out of combat. Your health will re-gen VERY fast once you are out of combat (about as fast as if you had a strong-HoT). However, getting out of combat isnt as easy as just running away a little bit. You need to remove yourself from the battle aways and then hang tight while your combat flag clears.
There are potions in Warhammer (they have a 60 second timmer) but other than that, there is no way to replenish your own health while in combat (unless you are a healer.) I would like to see a bandaging system, but potions are pretty readily available and come in a variety of uses especialy if you have the apathacary crafting skill.
Other than potions, there are no other food or drink options currently implemented.
Class "Paths":
Every class in warhammer has three "paths" that a class can choose from to more fully specialize your character. Starting with level 10 you will gain points that you can put into your class’s paths anyway you see fit until you have a total of 25 points to spend at level 40. You can also re-specialize your point allocation at a later time. (I presume this will have a cost by the time the game goes live.)
So far this pretty much sounds just like WoW "trees" right? Well here is how they are different.
Each path is associated with 3-6 different core class abilities. Each time you put points into a path the abilities associated with that path get more potent. This means that you can put your points into the path that contains the abilities that you find your playstyle using the most.
Each path also contains various tactics, skills, and morale abilities, that you can unlock as you put more and more points into that tree. As you would expect, the deeper the tactic/skill/ability is in the tree, the more powerful it is. You can choose to pickup these skills as you unlock them by spending a point on it, or just continue past it. You can also choose to spread your points across multiple trees and pickup the skills that are lowest on those trees.
One of the biggest differences between Warhammer "paths" and WoW "trees" is that the paths are NOT class defining at all. They simply add flavor to your class and your play style. Just because you put all your points into one tree doesn’t mean you will no longer be able to heal/tank/dps as your class should.
(screenshot)
Tactics:
Tactics are one of my favorite mechanics introduced in Warhammer Online. Tactics are passive buffs that you can put on your character. These "buffs" are always active and can not be removed or dispelled.
There are a range of tactics that suit what you are currently doing in the game. There are tactics that best suit RvR, there are some that are really best for PvE, some that are best for Soloing, etc. You can pick and choose which tactics you want to have on depending on what you are doing at the moment.
Example: I am going to be doing some tanking right now, so I will want to use the "aggro" tactic that will make my attacks generate extra aggro. Later, I will be doing some RvR so I want to use the "10% chance to gain speed increase for 7 seconds" tactic.
How are tactics "used"? Every 10 levels you will gain ONE tactic slot (you also have a class tactic and you can buy renown tactics later) so you will have 4 slots at level 40. You will buy/earn or otherwise gain a collection of tactics as you progress through the game. You can put whatever tactics you want into your slots, but you can only have those tactics active at a time which means you will have to make some decisions.
One of the most useful things about tactics is that you can setup up-to 5 different tactic configurations that you can swap to whenever you are out of combat. This makes switching roles during your game play much more effective and fun.
Once again, these tactics are NOT class defining, but add that extra flavor that makes your play style work for you.
(screenshot)
Morale:
Another really fun part of your character is the morale abilities. You will collect morale abilities as you level or from the path you choose. These are special moves/skills/abilities/spells that you can execute to perform some pretty impressive things. Morale abilities are typically very powerful and you can have up to 4 different abilities available for use, one for each morale tier.
As you fight (RvR or PvE) you will slowly build "morale". You have a morale meter that will slowly fill on your screen. When your meter reaches 25% your Tier 1 morale ability will become available for use. You can choose to execute that ability (which will drain all your morale) or let your morale continue to build. Your tier 2 ability will be available at 50%, tier 3 at 75%, and tier 4 at 100%. The higher the tier, the more powerful the ability.
Morale abilities are most certainly not class defining. They tend to add the very occasional "wow" ability to your game play. Most importantly they can turn the tide of a battle when used effectively.
Area of Effect:
ALL classes have various AoE abilities. Some have more and some have less but every class has some. They range from escape type AoE (like spells that knock your opponents one way and you the other) to ranged nuke AoE that does massive damage. Just because I don’t list AoE in a class below doesn’t mean they have NO AoE ability, it just means that it is not a core mechanic for them.
Tank Taunts:
I have seen taunts go through a few stages but I really like their place now. Taunts serve two purposes: 1) Force a monster to attack you for a certain amount of time. 2) While taunted you do 30% more damage to the target. This means that Taunts are useful in PvE AND RvR.
Death:
What happens when you die? Good question! Death in Warhammer is intentionally not very painful. The biggest penalty is that you are removed from combat for a period of time. This is a great thing (expecially for melee classes) because you are going to die a lot in RvR. Here is what happens when you die.
1) You get a window stating you have died. There is a respawn button and timer. When the timer runs out, you will be auto respawned (not sure if the timer is there in PvE instances or not.)
2) You respawn at the closest friendly camp. There are as many as 3-5 camps on each map, this means you normally dont have to run too far. If you die in an RvR battle zone (there is one on each map) then you are respawned at your warcamp. There is at least one warcamp for each faction (order and destruction) that boarders right on the RvR area.
3) All your buffs/debuffs are removed and you have a penalty placed on you for (i think) 10 minutes. This debuff reduces your health by X%. This number gets higher and higher each time you are killed with the debuff on, up to a total of 10%.
You may then continue off into battle. Don't forget to re-buff! (I always do.)
Mounts:
You can purchase you mount starting at level 20. They are currently 30 gold. Currently, getting 30g by level 20 would be cake. But that may change or the price may go up. I'll let you know if I see that change.
Right now there is ONE mount for each race. There are no level 40 mounts that I have seen. The mounts increase movement speed by 50% and are mostly like WoW mounts (cant use indoors, cant use abilities on them, an item in your backpack you "use" to jump on, etc.) Currently, in order to summon your mount you click the mount in your inventory/hotbar which causes your character to pull out a horn which he/she blows. Then there is a poof of dust and you are on your mount. Its about a 3 second cast.
Here are the types of mounts available to each race:
Dwarf - Helicopter: Prolly my least favorite mount. Just my opinion.
Empire - Brown Horse: Typical brown horse with a saddle. Meh.
High Elf - White Horse: Fancy white horse with no saddle. Fits the elves nicely.
GreenSkin (Orc) - Warthog: The black orc looks way bigger than the hog. But it has a rather fitting look to it.
GreenSkin (Gob) - Wolf: A dark gray mean looking wolf. Looks perfect.
Chaos - Black Horse: An evil looking thick black horse with red eyes.
Dark Elves - Raptor: A hugh red/purple raptor with barding. It looks WAY too big so it makes you really stand out. The constant and quick sound it makes when it runs (thud thud) gets anoying real fast.
Travel:
This isn't really a character mechanic, but I wanted to spell it out because it seemed to go along with mounts. Your mode of travel will mostly be foot for the first number of levels. However, once you arrive at your first warcamp you will meet a flight master. A flight master is available in EACH warcamp. When you choose to take a flight to somewhere you will be taken to a "cut scene" which will show your character get on a dragon (destruction) or helecopter (order) and fly off into the sunset. After a loading screen you appear already landed at your destination.
I would like take this moment to point out that this feature must NOT be completely implemented. Currently the UI for choosing your destination is VERY clumsy and bland (just some black boxes with names of locations in them) and you can fly to ALL (but only) the areas currently being tested in that beta push. I am not sure if you can fly to anywhere you want once the game goes live. I'm not sure if you need to have visited your destination first. I'm not sure if there will be different flying mounts that take you. I'm not sure what the UI will look like. I'm not sure if the cost (yes there is one) for each trip will stay the same.
Currently it's pretty clumsy and I'm sure it will be improved/changed before launch.
Gear:
I dont want to do a complete review of the gear system at this time. But I do want to point out its highlights and how it works.
Gear Quality:
Gear has the exact same quality system as WoW. Grey (unusable), White(usable, no stats), Green (good item with stats), Blue (rare item with stats), Purple (epic item with stats).
Armor Sets:
There are armor sets and they work exactly like WoW. 3 pieces of X set give Y bonus. 5 pieces give Z bonus. etc etc etc
Gear bonuses:
Green level and better have addtional stats on the item that provide a constant buff to your base stats. I have yet to see an item that "procs" or gives of some other benefit other than stats, but this doesnt mean they dont exist.
Binding:
When you use any green level item, or higher, it binds to you. This means you cant re-sell it or give it away. This is very similar to WoW. The difference is that Bind on Pickup items seem to be restricted to quest rewards (incuding public quests). I have found rare (even epic) items and been able to trade them, no problem.
Who can wear it:
Almost all gear in the game is useable only by the specific class that it is meant for. The item has a "Carear" tag on it and only that class can use that item. This makes many things easier. Normally I take the items i find and look for someone near by to give them to. Once the game goes live, and money means something, i will be keeping all this stuff and putting it on the acution house.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cernan
It's mostly true, but most Broken items can be repaired and used by all classes. I just wanted to point this out, because when the new influx of testers started we had someone quit our PQ group because they didn't understand how it worked. They yelled at the group for everyone rolling on the item when they thought only they could use it. When you inspect the broken item it will show you the stats for YOUR class, because when you repair at a vendor it will be customized for you. However, every other person will see stats for their specific class. This can be confusing. I tried explaining that to the person that yelled and at us and quit. She/he never responded to my tells. I thought it was humorous.
Gear Benefits:
Gear makes a difference, period. The better your gear, the better you will do. HOWEVER, I feel that the gear makes less difference than it does in current day WoW. As a test, I once took off all my gear except for my epic axe and ran into RvR. I died more than normal, but it was doable. So, gear is going to be important for sure, but it is not as completely lop-sided as modern day WoW.
Gear Collections:
I have yet to feel the need to
Grouping:
I know that this will be a big question on people's minds: How will the class I choose be accepted in groups?
I honestly havent done much in the way of instanced PvE testing, so it is hard for me to speak to that. HOWEVER, I can confirm the following things:
1) You are going to group alot. (see open groups below)
2) Tanks are important in PvE and RvR. In PvE they are almost always required unless you have enough healing. (My Disciple of Khaine has in fact tanked a PQ boss here and there, but only with LOTS of healing.) In RvR they are important because they can be up front keeping the other side busy and keeping you protected.
3) Healing is important. In most PvE any healing class will do fine (warrior priest, DoK, shaman, runeprist, archmage, zealot) and this is mostly true in RvR too. There are cases where your warrior priest and DoK just plain wont cut it for healing and something more is needed.
4) DPS is important. I have seen a group of tanks and healers get steam rolled by a big group of DPS. Besides, just about all classes have some form of real DPS.
5) There are 6 slots in each group. This means that in PvE if one slot is taken by a tank and another taken by a healer, there are still 4 more slots for DPS.
6) Honestly, group composition hasnt mattered toooo much so far. What really matters is people doing their jobs. I'm not certain this will always be the case, but that is the way it has been in warhammer for me so far.
Open Groups:
Any time you create a group in Warhammer, it is an "open" group by default. This means that anyone can invite themselves into your group. Of course you can close your group if you like, but this is a really neat fature because people doing quests (like public quests) in an area can easily group for the best results. Finding open groups in your area is really simple and you will even be alerted that there are open groups near you when you enter a new area. Its a great system and works really well.
Section II: Order Class Review
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Some classes I have played more than others and so below are MY experiences with the various classes. I admit that I have played Destruction more than Order. However, over the last year, I have had a chance to play them ALL in some capacity and see them change and grow.
In addition to trying to describe each class's mechanics, I will provide my own personal opinion and rating of each class.
REMEMBER!!!! This is >MY< rating. It is my conclusion. There are people who LOVE the classes I hate and HATE the classes I love. PLEASE draw your own conclusions. I just thought some people might want to know what >I< think.
My Rating System:
* = Bland Class
** = Fun Class
*** = Great Class
(NOTE: All screen shots below are from level 31 characters with mixed green/blue level gear.)
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Dwarf - Engineer
Mechanics: Pet/Ranged DPS (same as Squig Herder)
Mechanic Description: The Engineer and the Squig Herder are two sides of the same coin. The engineer uses mostly ranged attacks with a gun. These attacks have the ability to do substantial damage as well as cripple opponents. The engineer can slow other players/monsters down, fire on the run, and also bludgeon (with his wrench).
You might also notice that I mentioned a "pet". Unlike the Squig Herder who has actual pets (a Squig) the engineer has gun turrets and land mines. The gun turrets can be dropped to add some additional DPS and are pretty tough. The land mines can be placed and are visible to everyone. They are not unlike the WoW hunter's traps.
How are they different than the Squig Herder? They seem more methodical than the SH. They seem to take a little more thought because their "pets" dont move.
My Opinion: If you like ranged DPS this is a great class. Currently ranged DPS is one of the strongest forces in the game. They solo pretty well and make great companions. They require a little management like positioning and turrets/mines.
My Rating: ** (Pretty fun!)
(screenshot)
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Dwarf - Rune Priest
Mechanics: Healer (same as Zealot)
Mechanic Description: The Rune Priest (or RP) is about as close to a "pure" healer as you are going to get. They have the widest range of healing spells like shield, instant small heal, HoT, direct heal + HoT, big NUKE heal, group heal and some spells that damage your enemy while healing an ally at the same time. They have few single target direct damage spells but do have some nice AoE spells to add into the mix. This means that soloing will require you to self heal each fight. They also have a nice selection of party buffs to offer.
How are they different than the Zealot? The RP has a very bland style IMO. They also stand out substatially in RvR compared to the Zealot. Their mechanical differences are negligable but mostly "style" type differences.
My Opinion: If you plan to mainly group or just love healing, this is the class for you. Honestly, they can have a little bit of a hard time soloing (compared to other classes) but shine in groups. Also, their damage is currently pretty sub-par compared to other "dps" classes. This means that you will mostly be healing/buffing in groups. The RP is almost completely a support class.
My Rating: * (...for the "meh" factor.)
(screenshot)
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Dwarf - Iron Breaker
Mechanics: Tank/Grudges/Oath Friend (unique)
Mechanic Description: Whenever the Iron Beaker (IB) is attacked they build "grudges". When not in combat the grudges fade. This is not unlike the WoW warriors "rage" with one slight difference. Many of the IB's abilities will become more potent the more grudges they have built up. In addition to this, the IB can use some of his grudges to perform special attack moves that damage as well as debuff targets.
Another unique mechanic of the IB is the "Oath Friend". The IB can select another character as an oath friend which will give the IB and the friend special advantages. One advantage is that many of the IB's attacks will hard their foe and buff their oath friend. Also, the IB builds extra grudges when their oath friend is attacked.
My Opinion: The IB is one of the most fun classes for Order. They do a very respectable amount of damage and take forever to kill. You can easily fight 2-3 same level mobs at the same time. This class solo's very well and does fair in RvR. As I stated earlier, ranged DPS is very strong in RvR and this means that running out into the fray can be very dangerous. However, with a few heals you can last a very long time even with multiple players banging on you.
My Rating: *** (TANKZOR! What a dwarf should be!)
(screenshot)
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Empire - Witch Hunter
Mechanics: Melee DPS/Accusations (same as Witch Elf)
Mechanic Description: The Witch Hunter is a melee DPS monster. The witch hunter's abilities build up " Accusations " as they fight. You can then use these Accusations with finishing moves that are more potent depending on how many Accusations you have built up. This mechanic is VERY similar to the WoW Rogue combo point system. The Witch Hunter also has a limited stealth mechanic but this doesn’t last forever and drains your Action Points. In addition to melee DPS the Witch Hunter has the ability to perform some ranged attacks as well.
My Opinion: I did not play this class as much as others mostly because I'm not a fan of pure melee DPS classes. HOWEVER, I have been creamed many times by witch hunters. Their damage output is insane when up close. In addition to this, they just plain look dang cool!
My Rating: ** (That hat is dang cool.)
(screenshot)
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Empire - Bright Wizard
Mechanics: Ranged DPS/Combustion (same as Sorcerer)
Mechanic Description: Pure destruction. The bright wizard uses all fire spells to rain down pure damage on anything and everything. All of the bright wizard’s spells build up their "combustion" the higher their combustion the more potent their spells are. But watch out! The higher their combustion the most likely they are to have a backfire which will cause themselves some damage. This means that you must learn to control yourself. The bright wizard has a nice selection of AoE spells and some really impressive effects.
My Opinion: This is where the DPS is. I'm certain that Bright Wizards and Sorcerers have killed more players than any other class. Their effects are the most impressive and they are fun to watch. However, all that damage means that they die very quickly. They go down very fast under any kind of direct assault from melee.
My Rating: *** (BOOM! NUKE! BOOM!)
(screenshot)
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Empire - Warrior Priest
Mechanics: melee dps/support healer/Righteous Fury (same as Disciple of Khaine)
Mechanic Description: The warrior priest is a front lines healer. This means that they MUST be at the front of the fight and swinging their hammer in order to be effective. As the warrior priest executes his damaging attacks, this builds his Righteous Fury. The warrior priest can then use his righteous fury to heal others.
The warrior priest is more melee dps than healer for the most part. It would be very hard for a lone warrior priest to keep a group alive with just his healing. This is because the warrior priest has less healing options than others (one HoT, one heal + HoT, one group heal). However, the warrior priest has high surviability and great utility in a group. Their dps while healing ability makes them great soloers too.
My Opinion: Warrior priests are sure to be a favorite. They have a great look and their melee-to-heal mechanic works very well. Their only draw back is that their front lines requirement means that in RvR you must be in the melee pit, which means you take lots of damage.
My Rating: *** (This is what I always wanted to WoW paladin to be.)
(screenshot)
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High Elf - Shadow Warrior
Mechanics: Melee/Ranged DPS/Stances (somewhat similar to Marauder)
Mechanic Description: The Shadow Warrior is an interesting mix of melee and ranged DPS. They have a wide range of skills and abilities for dishing out pain to opponents. The Shadow Warrior has 3 "stances" and each stances gives the Shadow Warrior a different buff. Only one stance can be active at a given time, but the Shadow Warrior can switch stances at a moment’s notice to adapt to the combat situation at hand. There are certain abilities that are ONLY available while a certain stance is active. This means that the players of the Shadow Warrior must watch combat very closely and quickly adapt to the current environment.
My Opinion: Very fun class to play. The stances can be a little hard to manage and require a lot of button-pressing/clicking. One of the best things about the shadow warrior is his ability to adapt to the current combat situation. This makes them very strong DPS and good utility too. If you liked the "twitch" style of play from the WoW rogue, the Shadow Warrior would be a logical choice.
My Rating: *** (I was really suprised by how fun they are.)
(screenshot)
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High Elf - Archmage
Mechanics: Ranged DPS/Healer/Force and Tranquility (same as Shaman)
Mechanic Description: The arch mage is a mixed ranged dps and healer. All of their healing or damage spells affect their Force or Tranquility. Any time that an arch mage casts a damage spell it builds their Force. When their Force is high their healing spells are more potent, but it uses up their force. Any time that and arch mage casts a healing spell it builds their Tranquility which makes their damage spells more potent. But damage spells use up their tranquility. This means that the arch mage is always trying to strike a balance between force and tranquility.
The Arch Mage also has an assortment of utility spells. Buff and defuffs and direct damage and AoE. This all combines to make the arch mage a well balanced and broad class.
My Opinion: This is a much more fun healer to play than the Rune Priest because it really forces you to do some damage to make your heals more effective. You also don’t feel bad chipping in some damage because you know your heals will keep up. The arch mage also does a fair amount of damage output. My only problem is their look. I dislike the very frail look of the arch mage and their style just isn’t for me.
My Rating: ** (The only "fun" order healer, IMO.)
(screenshot)
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High Elf - Sword Master
Mechanics: Tank/Sword Balance (same as Black Orc)
Mechanics Description: The Sword Master is a strong elf tank capable of putting out some nice damage and taking some hits too. Their combat abilities are broken down into 3 groups. Executing an ability from the first group allows you to execute abilities in the second group. Abilities executed in the second group allow you to execute abilities in the third group. Executing an ability in the third group re-sets your sword balance back to skills in the first group.
The sword master has a wide range of abilities that all center around tanking and melee damage. They also offer some decent group buffs that you can keep active in your group.
My Opinion: This is a solid class. The sword master can solo very well and is a welcome part of every group. Their sword balance mechanic can be a little confusing and cumbersome at first and takes some getting used to. At least you have many levels to familiarize yourself with the style.
My Rating: ** (Just isnt as cool as the IB for tanking is all.)
(screenshot)
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High Elf - White Lion
Mechanics: Melee DPS/Pet (unique)
Mechanic Description: White lions are an interesting take on the WoW style hunter. First the White Lion is pretty much a pure dps class with some crowd control. The difference is that the white lion must be right there up front with his lion. The white lion executes attacks that buff his lion or others in the group. He also possesses skills that will cripple other players.
Unlike WoW, where a Hunter would need a different pet for tanking and one for DPS, the White Lion uses the SAME pet for each role. The difference is that the white lion can choose to "train" his lion for different uses. And this can be done ON THE FLY AND IN COMBAT! There are three skill sets you can train for your lion and each one gives the lion different abilities. There is a DPS set, Tanking set, and Group utility set.
Special note: Just a little note on the war lion. The lion starts out as a very simple looking lion with no armor. As you go up in level, your lion changes looks and gets bigger. Util at level 40 the lion has a fair amount of armor and is VERY large. It's a cool effect.
My Opinion: This is a very fun class to play. Great soloability and great in a group as DPS. The lion itself looks VERY cool and I just love swinging that axe around while my lion claws and bites. The only drawback again is that the white lion must be in melee range to have any effect at all, which means wading into the melee fry at the center of the fight and taking LOTS of damage.
My Rating: *** (That lion just looks soooo cool.)
Section III: Destruction Class Review
-----------------------------------------
Some classes I have played more than others and so below are MY experiences with the various classes. I admit that I have played Destruction more than Order. However, over the last year, I have had a chance to play them ALL in some capacity and see them change and grow.
In addition to trying to describe each class's mechanics, I will provide my own personal opinion and rating of each class.
REMEMBER!!!! This is >MY< rating. It is my conclusion. There are people who LOVE the classes I hate and HATE the classes I love. PLEASE draw your own conclusions. I just thought some people might want to know what >I< think.
My Rating System:
* = Bland Class
** = Fun Class
*** = Great Class
(NOTE: All screen shots below are from level 31 characters with mixed green/blue level gear.)
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Greenskin - Squig Herder
Mechanics: Ranged DPS/Pet (same as Engineer)
Mechanic Description: This class would be very similar to the WoW style Hunter without traps. The Squig herder is mostly a ranged dps machine but has some melee abilities when needed. They can shoot in the run, snare, and debuff.
They also have a range of different Squigs to choose from. There is a tank Squig, melee and ranged dps Squigs, AoE Squigs and more. In addition to this the Squig Herder can sacrifice his current Squig in order to gain health or blowup and cause damage for example. What’s cool is that the next Squig cast is instant within like 10 seconds.
My Opinion: A fun class to play. Their pets are fun and offer a great deal of utility and support to a group. Because they are ranged dps they can stay at the back and pluck off foes and send in their squig to die a horrible death.
My Rating: ** (Very versital. Good soloer.)
(screenshot)
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Greenskin - Shaman
Mechanics: Ranged DPS/Healer/Waaagh! (same as Archmage)
Mechanic Description: Just as the Archmage this class is really well balanced and makes great sense so does the Shaman. The shaman has a good collection of healing spells and some AoE spells too. Each of your damage spells cast builds your Gork's Waaagh which makes your healing more potent. Each of your healing spells cast builds your Mork's Waaagh which makes your damage spells more potent. This mechanic is one of the best and most fun mechanics that Mythic has implemented in warhammer. You can really have your cake (heal) and eat it too (ranged dps).
My Opinion: Very solid and well balanced class. I also really like they way they look. Their size makes you hide in groups better and their style is really cool. Fun to play in you want to heal and DPS.
My Rating: *** (Great style and fun to play!)
(screenshot)
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Greenskin - Black Orc
Mechanics: Tank/Plans (same as sword master)
Mechanic Description: The black orc is a very sturdy tank made to take a beating. All of his attacks are grouped into three groups. Executing attacks in the first group (no plan) allows you to execute attacks in the second group (da Gud Plan). Executing attacks in the second group lets you execute attacks in the third group (da Best Plan) which then resets back to no plan. This allows you to very your attack sequence based on what you are trying to do (tank, solo, RvR).
The black orc also offers some group buffs in the form of "shouts" which buff the whole group.
My Opinion: This is a fun class that looks really great and plays very well. They do some decent damage and are a great boon to the group. Like the sword master, their "plan" mechanic can be a little confusing and cumbersome at first and takes some getting used to.
My Rating: ** (Tanks should be big. 'An he da biggest.)
(screenshot)
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Chaos - Zealot
Mechanics: Healer (same as Rune Priest)
Mechanic Description: This is the description "pure" healer. Just as any class in warhammer they are not really a "pure" healer, since they can dish out a fair amount of damage, but this is about as close as it gets. They have the largest selection of heals and some decent AoE spells too. They also offer a buff that allows the buff-ee to execute the buff causing damage to the enemy and removing the buff from themselves.
My Opinion: A solid class but I personally don’t like standing in the back watching health bars and healing. It was my hope that this kind of healing would be removed from warhammer but both the Zealot and Rune Priest seem to offer the capability to be a dedicated healer/buff bot. Even though the mechanic is the same as the rune priest, I still think this class is more fun. It has more style and personallity than the RP, thus my rating.
My Rating: ** (Just barely two stars honestly.)
(screenshot)
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Chaos - Marauder
Mechanics: Melee DPS (unique)
Mechanic Description: This was one of the first chaos classes to be released and seems to be very popular. They are primarily a melee DPS class. Their big claim to fame are their mutations. The Marauder has the ability to mutate his left arm into one of three different weapons thus allowing them to "dual wield". Depending on the mutation you choose you will have access to different moves with different consequences for your foe. You can also switch from one mutation to another during a fight. Each mutation also provides the character with a specific buff.
My Opinion: Strong melee dps and can take a beating. My only real concern is that I found the mutations very hard to manage. Getting your UI setup just right to accommodate each mutation can also take some time. I have no doubt however that many "twitch" play style junkies will like this class.
My Rating: ** (Some of those mutation effects really rock.)
(screenshot)
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Chaos - Chosen
Mechanics: Tank/Auras (unique)
Mechanic Description: The chosen is a very solid tank that combines good tank utility and dps. They have a wide range of skills for debuffing players/monsters and doing damage. They also have some useful AoE, in addition to their auras, that really perform well in RvR.
What is "Aura Twisting"? The Chosen can have as many as 8 (with those from the paths) auras. Each aura has a negative effect on foes and a positive effect on allies that are within the radius. The "twisting" part comes when you deactivate an aura and activate another one. When you you deactivate an aura or activate a new aura, the old aura remains active for 12 seconds. This means that you can constantly click auras and keep as many as 3 active at a time.
My Opinion: The chosen not only looks cool, but is a very solid boon to any group. They solo and RvR very well. Their aura twisting ability seems to me to be a little too much to keep up in RvR but the nice thing is that you can neglect it and still be very effective.
My Rating: *** (What I always dreamed a "Chaos Knight" would be.)
(screenshot)
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Chaos - Magus
Mechanics: Ranged DPS/Pets (pets similar to Engineer)
Mechanic Description: The magus is a very typical DPS caster. They mostly reply on direct damage spells with some AoE mixed in. The thing that sets them apart is that they have minions that they support like the Engineer's turrets, these minions cannot move from their summoned location. There are different minions for different situations (ranged dps, melee dps, etc). I have seen a blue horror minion that could move, but I am honestly not familiar with it.
My Opinion: That disk is cool! It also changes as you go up in level and looks even cooler. The magus does pretty well. I found the stationary minions to be a little bit of a hassle to manage, but the Magus does well anyway. If you like doing dps and want to have a little bit of that "pet" flavor on your character (or you just wanna fly around on that dang cool disk) then the Magus is for you.
My Rating: ** (No joke, that disk is really cool.)
(screenshot)
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Dark Elf - Sorcerer
Mechanics: Ranged DPS/Dark Magic (same as Bright Wizard)
Mechanic Description: This is Destruction's answer to the Bright Wizard. The Sorcerer knows how to lay down the hurt. They have a very wide range of damage and debuff spells as well as a nice selection of AoE goodness. Similar to the Bright Wizard's "combustion", all of the Sorcerer's spells build Dark Magic. The more Dark Magic there is, the more potent their spells are. However, more Dark Magic means there is a higher and higher chance that the Sorcerer could suffer a "backlash" which will cause them some damage and fail the spell.
My Opinion: The Sorcerer has some really great and cool effects. They are the height of chaos fire power and deal pretty catastrophic damage. They are, however, your classic "glass cannon" and dont take much punishment themselves.
My Rating: *** (Bringing the Chaos hurt since the civil war.)
(screenshot)
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Dark Elf - Witch Elf
Mechanics: Melee DPS/Blood Lust (same as Witch Hunter)
Mechanic Description: This is a dps machine similar in nature to the WoW rouge, complete with stealth and a combo point system (Blood Lust). Your attacks build up blood lust and your finishers (kisses) consume them doing more damage for each point of blood lust. They have a wide variety of attacks and are very versatile in melee.
My Opinion: The Witch Elf has a few things going against it. 1) True to lore, they are only girls and I just don’t like playing a girl as my main. Sorry. 2) They don’t put out as much damage as their Order counterpart. They simply need more DPS. 3) They wear cloth armor but need to be in the thick of battle and thus can’t take much of a beating. They die quick.
My Rating: * (They are hot and I like the "witch elves" in warhammer. Just not for me though.)
(screenshot)
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Dark Elf - Disciple of Khaine
Mechanics: melee dps/support healer/Soul Essence (same as Warrior Priest)
Mechanic Description: This is another class that is very well balanced and fun to play. The melee-to-heal mechanic is very strong in this class. Each attack you perform generates Soul Essence. You can then use Soul Essence to cast healing spells (HoT, Heal + HoT, group heal). If you run out of Soul Essence then you better get back to slashing. Like they warrior priest, they lean a little more to the melee DPS side than the healer side because they lack any big heals and can’t sustain healing for very long without having to return to slashing.
My Opinion: Great balance and a clear place in each battle make this a very strong class. Just as the warrior priest you must be at the front lines and thus you take a fair amount of damage, but your healing can help make up for that, at least for a while. In any case this class is a great support to any group and the melee front lines.
My Rating: *** (Two blades and heals to boot!)
Section IV: Conclusion
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There are a lot of really great classes. I am only just now about 75% sure on what I personally want to play at release. I have gone back and forth from class to class, from Order to Destruction. You will be pretty happy no matter what you choose. My advice is to play the class that most calls out to you. Create all your favorite classes on release day and see which one you stick with the longest.
Section V: Corrections and Answers
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Please feel free to post your corrections and questions and I will try to answer them here.
Corrections:
-
Questions and Answers:
Q:
A:
Q: Please tell us about the squig herder and its dps compared to other dps classes ( note i said dps classes not limited to only range)
A: Hard to say at this point. There arent any damage meters yet so its kinda hard to say. I would say that they hit HARD. They seem to do as much as the sorc or bright wzi or witch hunter, but the SH has WAY more survivability.
Q: With regards to open RVR and the scenarios, would you say one army is much better, and wins more often then the other? For instance, does Order tend to lose 70% of their open RVR battles / scenarios? Or have you found it to be very much even as to which side wins, when it comes to battles?
A: I would say that, on the beta servers, destruction is just about always in greater supply. HOWEVER, i think that destruction seems to "loose" more than order. Why? No idea. The classes are pretty evenly matched. It might be that there is more ranged dps characters (lots and lots of bright wizards) and this means more destruction dieing. But who knows really.
Honestly, there is a great deal of back and forth and back and forth durring RvR. It doesnt seem like any one side dominates too long.
Q: you didn't mention this in your guide but lets say i die and get the 10 minute debuff. 5 minutes later i die again. does the debuff go back to 10 minutes with the increased penalty or does will it stay at 5 minutes with the increased penalty?
A: yep, it gets refreshed.
Q: Ive heard that pets (squig and WL) both get buggy at times and get stuck often. Did you run into this?
A: I have not experienced this. I am certain it happens, because i have seen mobs do odd things like that and i'm sure they use the same pathing. HOWEVER, i would say it is likely the exception more than the rule. They seemed to work very well with me when i used them.
Q: can you name your pets?
A: No.
I ain't leaving without your soul and I am sober this time.
Mark Jacobs' Blog:
http://onlinegamesareanichemarket.wordpress.com/
Interesting read about what will happens if WAR fails or if WAR succeeds.
http://onlinegamesareanichemarket.wordpress.com/
Interesting read about what will happens if WAR fails or if WAR succeeds.
I ain't leaving without your soul and I am sober this time.