This is the stuff Pharao mentioned during yesterday's raid.
The #3 ranked US raiding guild has closed shop and will not be raiding in patch 2.4.
They'll be taking a look in WotLK again but have no high hopes.
Apprently too big a chunk of their core raiders decided to tune down - possibly upset at Crimson Spinels for Badges (10 for a full Karazhan clear if you coordinate it with your raiding buddies) if not for the fact that over a 1000 guilds have already killed Illidan Stormrage and that this trend, according to them, will continue with the Sunwell Plateau.
Provided that Sunwell Plateau'll be the last raiding instance out there going Live in April this year, and with WotLK going live on a purely guesstimated date of November 2008, you'll have eight months to go from start to finish in that instance as well.
EU thread: http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.htm ... 9686&sid=1
US thread: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 6206&sid=1
Risen's front page: http://www.risen-guild.com/
Now I've tried finding some other stuff surrounding this, but EJs is remarkedly void of the Risen drama.
The only things that are remotely similar to this is some snide comments from Darchon of LootFTW and Ashilh of Guility As Sin on the TH forums in a thread which is now gone, where they both harped on a guild seriously mentioning badge farm runs to "gear up" for Sunwell Plateau.
Bizarre.
The Risen Mandate
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TheWarriorKing
- Legionnaire
- Posts: 330
- Joined: 21 Jan 2008, 18:02
Pros:
Good gems finally for _GOOD_ PvPers.
Cons:
Pimping casuals, more welfare - which never make the high-end PvE guilds happy.
They should've made the gems, so that you needed XXXX required raiting, before being able to buy them.
(Yes, I know there's class inbalance, but any good and active PvP player can get 2k raiting)
Good gems finally for _GOOD_ PvPers.
Cons:
Pimping casuals, more welfare - which never make the high-end PvE guilds happy.
They should've made the gems, so that you needed XXXX required raiting, before being able to buy them.
(Yes, I know there's class inbalance, but any good and active PvP player can get 2k raiting)
I quote this out of one of the topic's Sneek posted:
Blizzard doesn't care.... the top 500 guilds in world don't even make 1% of their subscriber base and I don't think anyone beyond them cares that Risen quit.
The whole thing is so unbelievably emo it makes me wonder if their lives revolved around WoW. The most surprising thing to me is that He was pissed because of Kara dropping BT/MH gems. Its no skin off my back or anyone else's if casuals get good gear.
Too many people take this game too seriously.
First of all, 500 guilds DOES make over 1%, mostlikely around 2-3%.
But, I know they're "just" guilds, but they're actually a lot more in my eyes. I mean, they are really the drivewheel for giving WoW some sort of respect. I mean, in the gaming world you need some rather serious contesting going on in an online multiplayer game, before it really can be sort of "respected", and not qualified as a single-player wanker game. It's not like I hate single-player games (that much!), but it's pretty obvious that's not what keeps the gaming industry alive, as it's so easy to rip.
I can remember Risen since the start of I really cared about progress (luckily that tone have gotten down), but Risen is still one of those lovely old school guilds that've been there forever. Even tho Lootftw have almost existed in 2 years now, they'll always be a sort of "new" guild in my book.
I can assure you off, if Blizzard doesn't keep the last amount of quality players in this game, then it'll die, very fast. I mean, I think it's around 40% of total suscribers that's from asia, and then make 20-50% of those gold farmers. If it wasn't because of these "leading icons" in both PvE and PvP for WoW, there would be a lot of noobs and casuals, that quitted.
WoW population rely on the domino-effect as it's a MMO. If people leave, then it's be less "fun" to play the game for others, and then again if they leave, then it's gonna be even more boring. It grows in the same way, just opposite.
The reason why non-contest games like Diablo is still a "respected" game, was because back then there wasn't really this term "e-sport", as simply the internet wasn't as big as it is today - and not nearly as fast. All this online competetion games just attracts so many males, because males tend to love competetions. I dunno, I guess I'm also one of those that love competetion - atleast I really feel single player games is a part of the best. Obviously I play some single player games once in a while, but that's mainly when I'm unable to connect to the intawebs
But, I know they're "just" guilds, but they're actually a lot more in my eyes. I mean, they are really the drivewheel for giving WoW some sort of respect. I mean, in the gaming world you need some rather serious contesting going on in an online multiplayer game, before it really can be sort of "respected", and not qualified as a single-player wanker game. It's not like I hate single-player games (that much!), but it's pretty obvious that's not what keeps the gaming industry alive, as it's so easy to rip.
I can remember Risen since the start of I really cared about progress (luckily that tone have gotten down), but Risen is still one of those lovely old school guilds that've been there forever. Even tho Lootftw have almost existed in 2 years now, they'll always be a sort of "new" guild in my book.
I can assure you off, if Blizzard doesn't keep the last amount of quality players in this game, then it'll die, very fast. I mean, I think it's around 40% of total suscribers that's from asia, and then make 20-50% of those gold farmers. If it wasn't because of these "leading icons" in both PvE and PvP for WoW, there would be a lot of noobs and casuals, that quitted.
WoW population rely on the domino-effect as it's a MMO. If people leave, then it's be less "fun" to play the game for others, and then again if they leave, then it's gonna be even more boring. It grows in the same way, just opposite.
The reason why non-contest games like Diablo is still a "respected" game, was because back then there wasn't really this term "e-sport", as simply the internet wasn't as big as it is today - and not nearly as fast. All this online competetion games just attracts so many males, because males tend to love competetions. I dunno, I guess I'm also one of those that love competetion - atleast I really feel single player games is a part of the best. Obviously I play some single player games once in a while, but that's mainly when I'm unable to connect to the intawebs
No I bet its under 1%. 2-3% makes of the total wow players is like 200-300k and the 500 top guilds would have like 400-600 players each and that seems very unlikly to me. My guess is that the 1000 top guild maybe have a average of 50 playes and that makes it about ½% of the total wow players world wide....Kozu wrote:First of all, 500 guilds DOES make over 1%, mostlikely around 2-3%.
Note. WoW got 10.000.000 subscribers world wide
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TheWarriorKing
- Legionnaire
- Posts: 330
- Joined: 21 Jan 2008, 18:02
I agree with kozu.Kozu wrote:First of all, 500 guilds DOES make over 1%, mostlikely around 2-3%.
But, I know they're "just" guilds, but they're actually a lot more in my eyes. I mean, they are really the drivewheel for giving WoW some sort of respect. I mean, in the gaming world you need some rather serious contesting going on in an online multiplayer game, before it really can be sort of "respected", and not qualified as a single-player wanker game. It's not like I hate single-player games (that much!), but it's pretty obvious that's not what keeps the gaming industry alive, as it's so easy to rip.
I can remember Risen since the start of I really cared about progress (luckily that tone have gotten down), but Risen is still one of those lovely old school guilds that've been there forever. Even tho Lootftw have almost existed in 2 years now, they'll always be a sort of "new" guild in my book.
I can assure you off, if Blizzard doesn't keep the last amount of quality players in this game, then it'll die, very fast. I mean, I think it's around 40% of total suscribers that's from asia, and then make 20-50% of those gold farmers. If it wasn't because of these "leading icons" in both PvE and PvP for WoW, there would be a lot of noobs and casuals, that quitted.
WoW population rely on the domino-effect as it's a MMO. If people leave, then it's be less "fun" to play the game for others, and then again if they leave, then it's gonna be even more boring. It grows in the same way, just opposite.
The reason why non-contest games like Diablo is still a "respected" game, was because back then there wasn't really this term "e-sport", as simply the internet wasn't as big as it is today - and not nearly as fast. All this online competetion games just attracts so many males, because males tend to love competetions. I dunno, I guess I'm also one of those that love competetion - atleast I really feel single player games is a part of the best. Obviously I play some single player games once in a while, but that's mainly when I'm unable to connect to the intawebs
1% competent players quitting does not equal 1% casual players or 1% chinese farmers quitting.And after all,competent players are beeing looked up to as in "Oh yea I totally need to be as pro as xxx" either you believe it or not.
I think that is not true. You don't need imba skill to become the best. You just need no life and raid 24/7. I don't think the so called uber guilds have anything to do with the high subscribtion numbers for WoW. I think it is the fact that there is a lot to do for everybody. No guild ever really hits a wall of things to do...except for that 0.5/1% of the guilds that want to clear an instance 1 day after it is released.I can assure you off, if Blizzard doesn't keep the last amount of quality players in this game, then it'll die, very fast. I mean, I think it's around 40% of total suscribers that's from asia, and then make 20-50% of those gold farmers. If it wasn't because of these "leading icons" in both PvE and PvP for WoW, there would be a lot of noobs and casuals, that quitted.
I ain't leaving without your soul and I am sober this time.
Well, I can sure you of that you need skill. Atleast, if you don't have the mind or the skills to learn an encounter in 2-3 tries, then you're too slow and will basicly slow down progress. 'but why does it take them so long to kill the bosses then?', Well it's all about analyzing, from my experience I can tell that WoW is A LOT different when you're facing bosses nobody killed yet - and you're standing there with no DBM or Big Wigs and try to get this to work. It's not all about just getting it to work, it's also about figuring out what the encounter actually does - and how to deal with it. So actually, what takes time is to learn what the encounter actually does, and the actualy learning curve in high-end guilds is very short.Fenz wrote:I think that is not true. You don't need imba skill to become the best. You just need no life and raid 24/7.
And also the reason why it's wrong to say that you don't need skill is: You can get in without any skill, true, but you won't stay there. If you have too many flaws, you're basicly out. For those that can remember the priest Olizander, that was in PoW, moved to Curse pre-TBC after PoW disbanded. When TBC released, he went shadow and started DPSing, after being DPS for ~4 months - he got kicked. Simply just because he had some problems with pulling aggro.
Sure "everyone" (that have the gear obviously) can get into a hardcore enviorment, but staying there for sure take some skill.
This is not the thing any more because al boss encounters are already looked up on test server so tactics and mods are already made on the day patch goes life.Kozu wrote: Well, I can sure you of that you need skill. Atleast, if you don't have the mind or the skills to learn an encounter in 2-3 tries, then you're too slow and will basicly slow down progress. 'but why does it take them so long to kill the bosses then?', Well it's all about analyzing, from my experience I can tell that WoW is A LOT different when you're facing bosses nobody killed yet - and you're standing there with no DBM or Big Wigs and try to get this to work. It's not all about just getting it to work, it's also about figuring out what the encounter actually does - and how to deal with it. So actually, what takes time is to learn what the encounter actually does, and the actualy learning curve in high-end guilds is very short.
By skill I mean that if you are not a total retard you can be effective. Granted the good players anticipate better when unexpected things happen so a tank dying won't be an automatic wipe for example. But if you do an encounter enough times you will get the hang of it sooner or later (unless you are the aformentioned retard). That this can be very frustrating is another matter 
Unless they make encounters very random 99% of the WoW poplation will never face a boss without knowning what to expect unless you agree to never look at guides
My point still stands tho. So called uberguilds leaving will not be the downfall of WoW. I bet 90% of the casual players have no idea who the top guilds are. They play for fun and as long as they can progress/have fun they will play WoW until the next big game comes along (wich has to be ultra big to get the same subscription numbers like WoW or free with in-game ads as have been suggested somewhere).
Unless they make encounters very random 99% of the WoW poplation will never face a boss without knowning what to expect unless you agree to never look at guides
My point still stands tho. So called uberguilds leaving will not be the downfall of WoW. I bet 90% of the casual players have no idea who the top guilds are. They play for fun and as long as they can progress/have fun they will play WoW until the next big game comes along (wich has to be ultra big to get the same subscription numbers like WoW or free with in-game ads as have been suggested somewhere).
I ain't leaving without your soul and I am sober this time.
QFT, I didn't know who Risen were before I saw this thread, and I certainly don't need them to compete...As long as I know something huge has been done, thats enough motivation as it is you dont really need the players who did it, its not like you know them. Somebody mentioned domino effect of ppl leaving. From my experience this domino effect is restricted to friend circles mostly, if it happens at all. So if 80% of your mates on the realm quit at about the same time (because if they dont do it at the same time you will have time to familiarize yourself with other ppl), there are 3 options: Quit, Realm Transfer, /care. Realm Transfer was a good move on the side of blizzard, letting you start anew without having to lvl your char. The only thing that will drive the people away from this monster of a game (in large numbers that is) is the game not offering fun anymore, due to getting outdated/imbalanced etc...Fenz wrote:By skill I mean that if you are not a total retard you can be effective.
My point still stands tho. So called uberguilds leaving will not be the downfall of WoW. I bet 90% of the casual players have no idea who the top guilds are. They play for fun and as long as they can progress/have fun they will play WoW until the next big game comes along.
P.S.
In some other thread Sneek mentioned that Blizzard doesn't get much of a profit from ppl who play a lot and are actively interested in the game, using customer support to report bugs, exploits, anything. So yea, Blizz pretty much doesn't care.
P.P.S.
QQ moar Risen. I don't get it, if everything is so ez, just do it in 2 weeks and go on vacation till next content patch duh...
I can understand the reason behind their actions, but in WoW 2 new Risen rises for everyone that falls (pun not intended), that's just the way WoW is and always have been.
To say that Blizzard doesn't care is not true I believe. If they truly didn't care they wouldn't release any free content, they'd just pump out expansion packs in an accelerated rate. I much prefer the current solution (with free content) as opposed to the model used in Daoc (ToA anyone?), since this will mean better time to balance expansion etc.
To say that Blizzard doesn't care is not true I believe. If they truly didn't care they wouldn't release any free content, they'd just pump out expansion packs in an accelerated rate. I much prefer the current solution (with free content) as opposed to the model used in Daoc (ToA anyone?), since this will mean better time to balance expansion etc.
Meh, it annoys me that outspoken "top-guilds" are taking emo approaches. They're upset that a company is focusing on their biggest source of revenue?! Good grief, how dare they, this is not EQ people, never will be, suck it up!
And secondly. This game, out of all the mmorpgs that are content/gear-driven is the one game that suffers extremely little from not having the pro gamers sticking around. The game reached 10 million subscribers because of word of mouth and advertising. Guess who's more likely to be dragged in by that type of hype? Casuals. The hardcore had this game researched and figured out before release back in the day.
Do I think all the changes Blizzard do are for the better? Not really, I think the epic gems should've been in the ZA speedrun for example, a couple in each chest would've been nice. Even KZ geared guilds can get 1-2 chests atleast.
Am I annoyed that they've moved away from the grindfest that was Naxx? Not really, It was kinda fun, but the time investment required both inside and outside the instance was frickkin insane.
Edit: I think it's nice that Blizzard has come to its sense and said that they want as many people as possible get to see all that outland has to offer. Ok so they can't let everybody just waltz up to Illidan, but on the other hand what other type of successful games are based around a large portion of the buyers not getting to finish it? It's insane. And people WHINING that this is not the case any more (Which it is, still), it just leaves me dumbstruck. OOOH 1000guilds have cleared Illidan or somesuch. Big frikkin deal. That's like 40k players out of 10 FUCKING MILLIONS YOU FUCKING RETARDS. Wah-wah-wah Im not as super-special as I used to be, where only me and 1000 other people in the world had time/interest to do this stuff. Gimme a frickkin break.
And secondly. This game, out of all the mmorpgs that are content/gear-driven is the one game that suffers extremely little from not having the pro gamers sticking around. The game reached 10 million subscribers because of word of mouth and advertising. Guess who's more likely to be dragged in by that type of hype? Casuals. The hardcore had this game researched and figured out before release back in the day.
Do I think all the changes Blizzard do are for the better? Not really, I think the epic gems should've been in the ZA speedrun for example, a couple in each chest would've been nice. Even KZ geared guilds can get 1-2 chests atleast.
Am I annoyed that they've moved away from the grindfest that was Naxx? Not really, It was kinda fun, but the time investment required both inside and outside the instance was frickkin insane.
Edit: I think it's nice that Blizzard has come to its sense and said that they want as many people as possible get to see all that outland has to offer. Ok so they can't let everybody just waltz up to Illidan, but on the other hand what other type of successful games are based around a large portion of the buyers not getting to finish it? It's insane. And people WHINING that this is not the case any more (Which it is, still), it just leaves me dumbstruck. OOOH 1000guilds have cleared Illidan or somesuch. Big frikkin deal. That's like 40k players out of 10 FUCKING MILLIONS YOU FUCKING RETARDS. Wah-wah-wah Im not as super-special as I used to be, where only me and 1000 other people in the world had time/interest to do this stuff. Gimme a frickkin break.
Anna Navarre: You're wearing sunglasses on a night operation?
JC Denton: My vision is augmented.
JC Denton: My vision is augmented.