PALADINS

Post by **Fenz** » 16 Apr 2007, 13:07

http://www.nihilum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=7728

sudo · Post by **sudo** » 16 Apr 2007, 15:37

depressing stuff .. I really hope they change it towards the 75% mark and/or take a look at our gear ...

Post by **sneek** » 17 Apr 2007, 13:59

Can understand why though since both paladins and shaman that have geared for crit had the "no potion raiding" experience.

Ezareth on Shaman: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... pageNo=1#0
Similar things going for paladins as well. Some jokingly giving away super manas because "they don't need them".

This is because how crit scales so incredibly well. I'll leave it to a math wiz to tell if it's exponential or "just cubic" but it's insanely good.

Suppose a spell costs 100 mana and critical hits with it will refund all that base mana.
If you have 20% to crit the spell essentially costs 80 mana on average.
If you upgrade to 21% to crit the spell will cost 79 mana on average.
That single percentage downgraded the costs to 79/80 = 98.75% of what it used to be at 20% to crit - on average.
If you upgrade to 22% to crit the spell will costs 78 mana on average and that single percentage to crit point in upgrade will reduce the average cost of that spell to 78/79 = 98.73% of what it used to be at 21% to crit.

It's a runaway snowball effect which they cut short.
Bit naughty they left the gear in place though.
And exceptionally ironic that they do that in the same patch they "[...] remove the tedium and cost from the massive consumable farming thatÃ¢Â€Â™s going on for endgame raiding [...]", quote from Tigole, a blue and end-game raiding content designer.

Because now Paladins, like Tree Druids, Holy Priests and Resto Shaman, will have to resort to drinking their manas again!

sudo · Post by **sudo** » 19 Apr 2007, 23:19

yea too bad every other class has a way to regain mana .. mana tide, speccing spirit, innervate. pallies have nothing. crit IS our mana regen... gg bliz

so howabout http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basic ... 0000000000
? Healing for pally is gear dependent anyway, just a little less crit now ..

Versus · Post by **Versus** » 19 Apr 2007, 23:37

Im prolly going this spec nextpatch http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basic ... 0000000000

Last 2 free points in improved holy shield

Healgear i already been collecting now just +heal/manaper5 even with illumuniation at 50% and you have that talent it will often be just as good or superiour now.
http://www.lootzor.com/index.php?c=4&l= ... 2.5habeu15

above link if you have illumination at 50% next patch for best heal items.

http://www.lootzor.com/index.php?c=4&l= ... u30habeu15

that one without illumination roughly.

Just finished some agro tests on ptr with sneek its ok. max threat cycle makes you go oom fast though. Its a bit more frontload agro dmg at the start with avenger shield/sor judgement/consc etc then a warrior.
But threat for paladins is like 50% reliant on the mob actually attacking you and you actually blocking the attack and not getting misses/dodged/parried.

(Block gives around 250 dmg from holy shield+blessing of sanctuary+retri aura x2 and no dmg/threat if you parry or dodge

just from seal/judgement/consr then)

Post by **sneek** » 20 Apr 2007, 08:31

Personally I'd like Geezer say his peace in here but I think we'll be seeing something in the range of "stfu noobs".
Anyway, he seems remarkedly calm considering the changes in 2.1!

Crit still helps increase your longevity though - and it's not like you mooched spirit regen ticks when you had several crit heals in a row.
But from what I read on other forums there seems to be a structural LACK of sta+int+crit+mp5+heal plate gear. Very naughty.

Talking about mooncloth crap to wear -- why totally ditch crit?

sudo · Post by **sudo** » 20 Apr 2007, 09:43

myea trying to mix crit with mp5 / int atm .. Ill see how it works out I guess. can always respec, been taking tanking and retnoob gear whenever I could anyway =)

isnt tanking mana issue sorta solved by getting constant heals? or does more go out than comes in

spec; myea spellwarding seems like a waste ... majority of dmg you're gonna take is melee when tanking, and 4% is nothing really ... mob nukes you for 100 .. with those talents, mob nukes you for 96 .. big deal

Defense skill I'd also rather get from gear than waste 5 talent points on .. its only 20, there's gear that gives more than that on a single piece.

Versus · Post by **Versus** » 20 Apr 2007, 11:03

Its basic math not my math from the first one even

. Illumuniation is our crit to mana talent if you dont take it or if it gets reduces to 50% mooncloth/mail etc with huge +heal/mp5 is superiour as that lootzor link shows almost always.

Paladin tanking got a major hit too with sa no longer giving mana back from overheals and rank1 conscreaction nerfed. I see most paladins saying they gotta downgear in gear for 5mans and heroics even too. I guess seal of blood can finally be usefull though Oo.

In short the wholy holy tree is if you get decent gear next patch just a minor upgrade in healing effiency/power really since all talents after that basiacly got 50% nerfed too with their synergies might as well spec something with it that could be useful if you got the gear(+heal/mp5 and less crit) anyway for healmode.

Sin go retdps mode for the holy dmg aura!

sudo · Post by **sudo** » 20 Apr 2007, 11:20

I like ret, cept you go oom SO fast iun ret gear , and people are always like 'oh nos I want the armor bonus aura!'

But yea, might go crusader strike - rest holy. No kings then tho .. altho I never buff kings in 25 mans, only in kz, and we can live without it (did it once!1)

Versus · Post by **Versus** » 20 Apr 2007, 21:58

tier6 stats from ptr :p at least tank gear finally gets as much stamina as warrior gear :\. good setbonuses too

http://www.worldofraids.com/news/paladin_T6_stats.jpg

sudo · Post by **sudo** » 22 Apr 2007, 09:30

Kinda like this (tri) spec;

http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basic ... 0000000000

The upper stuff in prot is nice not THAT super awesome, and I reallllllly like SoC :]
And still illumination for the crits, but concentrating on mp5 gear all the same..

Versus · Post by **Versus** » 22 Apr 2007, 09:52

Myeah you need holy shield to reach the crush immune caps without its impossible.
Yer really a far 3rd rate tank then imo having way less ac then druids less hp and will get hit for much more with crushes(150% hits)and will get pwnzored most of the time even in kara/heroics if ever want to tank shit there. And i need your crusader judgement and aura from full ret! ;p

sudo · Post by **sudo** » 22 Apr 2007, 10:28

if you can convince ark that a ret pally is useful .. sure. gl on that :]

Versus · Post by **Versus** » 22 Apr 2007, 10:31

Well its very simple next patch imo 20/25 in holy and further up in holy will not give you any real efficiency/power increase anymore so spec whatever imo after that

Hell were taking enhancement shamans too!

sudo · Post by **sudo** » 22 Apr 2007, 10:33

true ..
full ret / rest holy then.

and Ill direct ppl to geezer for kings as usual. even in kz :]

http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basic ... 2125131051

imp wisdom or full illumination? decisions decisions ..

my only worry is I wont be useful in 5 mans .. while with prot I could feasably tank and heal .. the 2 most populair spots :>