WARLOCKS

[Lateralus]

OMG PEW PEW

Trying an experiment here Gonna try nail down my most beloved skills and see what build provides the most of them (im sick? ORLY)

If u wonder why (u prolly dont), its because i never can decide what to take and everytime i change build im still unhappy.. so if i can nail down what build that provides me with the most Xes i might stick with it and have this part to refer to

SL/impLT/Shadowburn
Demonology
[x] Demonic Embrace [x] Improved Imp [x] Fel Domination
[x] Master Summoner [x] Demonic Sacrifice
[x] Master Demonologist [x] Soul Link

Affliction
[x] Improved Corruption [x] Imp Life Tap
[] Amp Curse [] Fel Concentration [] NightFall
[] Grim Reach [] Siphon Life [] CoEX
[] Shadow Mastery [] Dark Pact

Destruction
[x] Improved Shadowbolt [x] Bane [x] Shadowburn
[] Devastation [] Destructive Reach
[] Intensity [] Ruin [] Conflagrate

=12

Conflagrate / Nightfall (version with imp imp)
Demonology
[] Demonic Embrace [x] Improved Imp [] Fel Domination
[] Master Summoner [] Demonic Sacrifice
[] Master Demonologist [] Soul Link

Affliction
[x] Improved Corruption [x] Imp Life Tap
[] Amp Curse [x] Fel Concentration [x] NightFall
[] Grim Reach [] Siphon Life [] CoEX
[] Shadow Mastery [] Dark Pact

Destruction
[x] Improved Shadowbolt [x] Bane [x] Shadowburn
[x] Devastation [x] Destructive Reach
[x] Intensity [x] Ruin [x] Conflagrate

=13

SM/RUIN
Demonology
[] Demonic Embrace [] Improved Imp [] Fel Domination
[] Master Summoner [] Demonic Sacrifice
[] Master Demonologist [] Soul Link

Affliction
[x] Improved Corruption [x] Imp Life Tap
[x] Amp Curse [x] Fel Concentration [x] NightFall
[x] Grim Reach [x] Siphon Life [x] CoEX
[x] Shadow Mastery [] Dark Pact

Destruction
[x] Improved Shadowbolt [x] Bane [x] Shadowburn
[x] Devastation [x] Destructive Reach
[x] Intensity [x] Ruin [] Conflagrate

=16

Dark Pact
Demonology
[x] Demonic Embrace [x] Improved Imp [] Fel Domination
[] Master Summoner [] Demonic Sacrifice
[] Master Demonologist [] Soul Link

Affliction
[x] Improved Corruption [x] Imp Life Tap
[x] Amp Curse [x] Fel Concentration [x] NightFall
[x] Grim Reach [x] Siphon Life [x] CoEX
[x] Shadow Mastery [x] Dark Pact

Destruction
[x] Improved Shadowbolt [x] Bane [x] Shadowburn
[] Devastation [] Destructive Reach
[] Intensity [] Ruin [] Conflagrate

=15

SL/NF
Demonology
[x] Demonic Embrace [x] Improved Imp [x] Fel Domination
[x] Master Summoner [x] Demonic Sacrifice
[x] Master Demonologist [x] Soul Link

Affliction
[x] Improved Corruption [x] Imp Life Tap
[x] Amp Curse [x] Fel Concentration [x] NightFall
[x] Grim Reach [] Siphon Life [] CoEX
[] Shadow Mastery [] Dark Pact

Destruction
[] Improved Shadowbolt [] Bane [] Shadowburn
[] Devastation [] Destructive Reach
[] Intensity [] Ruin [] Conflagrate

=13

SM / RUIN FTW :p

[Fenz]

You to give then a value per talent from 1 till 10. Bet you will end up with 7/31/13.

[Lateralus]

You to give then a value per talent from 1 till 10. Bet you will end up with 7/31/13.

yeah i was thinking of that directly after i made it.. the point value that is so thats why i didnt post it untill now.. had that thing for a few weeks.


maybe u can mod it with putting for instance like this

5 points : demonic embrace, MD, imp corruption
4 points : range skill, shadow mastery etc
3 points : improved drains
2 points : dunno
1 point : supression :p

[Lateralus]

Thread reduct discussion. Interesting:

Implement for 1.12, please, Blizzard.


An edit:
I posted this twice in the thread, but many of the responses I see (eg, "We don't want to lifetap BEFORE a fight!" or "10 taps at 3% = 30% agro redux) demonstrate some people don't quite comprehend the idea, so, heres the example, math included:


Lets assume each tap is 10%. (10 is easy to work with)
I have hurt a mob to do 10000 units of threat.
Assuming I stop damaging the mob, and tap repeatedly:

Tap# --- Total Threat
1 ----- 9000
2 ----- 8100
3 ----- 7290
4 ----- 6521
5 ----- 5905

And each successive tap reduces my total threat by less and less, thus healping "overpowered" concerns. Also, Obviously my threat reduction is also capped by my hitpoints (further complying with scalablity concerns.)
Finally, a percentage number is easy to tweak for balance purposes. You can even tweak or create new talents to play with this number if you think its a good idea.

Obviously, I can not promise anything as to whether this can be implemented into the game. However, I can introduce this into discussion (if it hasn't been brought up already) while following some key talking points. I will list them so you can get an idea on my thinking and approach and also discuss other aspects of this that might come about when trying to design it:


Should this operate as an aggro-wipe or as aggro reduction for future spells? Current threat reduction for warlocks operates on the latter mechanic.


Percentage based or flat number based? Flat number based is probably more controllable, but again, percentage-based could serve as threat reduction, not threat wiping. Flat numbers look like they would work better as threat-wiping.


Adding aggro reduction or wiping gives damage boosts indirectly. Keeping the effect small would keep it balanced, but also might not be enough effect to be worthwhile. Adding a mechanic dealing with threat affects the balance of the class in big ways.

Anything you guys wish to add, please do.

Also, keep in mind this is the weekend, so I won't be able to get any dev feedback for a few days.

UPDATE 7/5/06- Chatted a bit regarding threat reduction and lifetap. The devs are considering elements of threat reduction as part of the expanded abilities with the level cap increase. I know saying "wait for the expansion" doesn't really change things now, but there is going to be a host of new changes that we will be releasing information about within the month.

The idea has been submitted, but you might get the same end by different means, when it comes to threat reduction

URL: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 129085&P=1

[Fenz]

Alright, I was considering the impact of Curse of Recklessness and what it means in terms of threat levels for a raid.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets make these assumptions:

20% of a warrior's threat comes from their weapon's damage, as opposed to special abilities
When fully sundered, an enemy has roughly 15% damage reduction
The average enemy attack speed is 2 seconds
A warrior's basic attack in Defensive Stance generates 45% increased threat. (This is true w/ Defiance)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, So, Curse of Recklessness reduces armor by 640 and increases AP by 90. This does a DPS increase on the enemy of 90/14, or +6.4 DPS. Assuming an attack speed of 2 seconds, this is a DPH increase of 12.8. On an enemy whose standard attacks are on the level of 1K-2K per, 13 additional damage doesn't mean that much.

Now for the armor reduction side. A 15% DR level of armor means ~1000 armor. Reducing this by 640 means 360 armor remaining or a DR of 6.14% This means incoming Damage of 94% instead of 85%. 94/85 = 1.11, thus an 11% increase in damage.

The Main Tank, therefore, gets a 11 * .2 * 1.45 = 3.19% increase in total overall threat. This means that the dps of the entire raid can increase by 3.19%.
Furthermore, all Physical dps, i.e. rogues, hunters, and warriors get the same 11% dmg increase, meaning that if threat isn't an issue, damage goes up a lot.

I'm not entirely sure on the Armor w/ sunder for bosses, nor the %threat from damage, but this all should be close enough.


http://www.saichotictech.net/Others/War ... sness.html

[Fenz]

Alright, I was considering the impact of Curse of Recklessness and what it means in terms of threat levels for a raid.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets make these assumptions:

20% of a warrior's threat comes from their weapon's damage, as opposed to special abilities
When fully sundered, an enemy has roughly 15% damage reduction
The average enemy attack speed is 2 seconds
A warrior's basic attack in Defensive Stance generates 45% increased threat. (This is true w/ Defiance)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, So, Curse of Recklessness reduces armor by 640 and increases AP by 90. This does a DPS increase on the enemy of 90/14, or +6.4 DPS. Assuming an attack speed of 2 seconds, this is a DPH increase of 12.8. On an enemy whose standard attacks are on the level of 1K-2K per, 13 additional damage doesn't mean that much.

Now for the armor reduction side. A 15% DR level of armor means ~1000 armor. Reducing this by 640 means 360 armor remaining or a DR of 6.14% This means incoming Damage of 94% instead of 85%. 94/85 = 1.11, thus an 11% increase in damage.

The Main Tank, therefore, gets a 11 * .2 * 1.45 = 3.19% increase in total overall threat. This means that the dps of the entire raid can increase by 3.19%.
Furthermore, all Physical dps, i.e. rogues, hunters, and warriors get the same 11% dmg increase, meaning that if threat isn't an issue, damage goes up a lot.

I'm not entirely sure on the Armor w/ sunder for bosses, nor the %threat from damage, but this all should be close enough.

http://www.saichotictech.net/Others/War ... sness.html

[Lateralus]

..silence audience.... "clapping faints" .. the moment is here.. "suprising faces appear... i Lateralus@TwilightsHammer presents to you ...

<<<THE SHADOWBOLT PWMGZORZ COUNTER>>>

How much does your SB do on default without sacced shit etc. DISCUSS

[Lateralus]

This is me with CoS:

Normal bolt hit
1235.4 damage

Cast time
2.5 seconds

% hit vs target
87%

% crit if hit
13.2%

% crit and hit
11.5%

% crit and hit and vulnerability proc
10%

% of time vulnerability active
34.3%

Average damage
1300 damage

Average DPS
520 dps

[Lateralus]

Farmtip that u allready know of.. i didnt know how easy it was tho.. maraudon gives u 5 blue per run.. just kill landslide, princess and that goblin guy.. i did them all first kill and got like 10-15 gold per run. takes about 20-30 minutes when u get it all right.

Tactics i used.

Landslide
Bolt dot dot dot dot bolt immolate drain dot dot healthstone, pot instaspells and drain till dead. (almost died first try)

Princess
Runspeed on boots. Start fight with bolt and rest kite with runspeed and dot dot dot dot dot = dead (dont attack with imp if ur sm/ruin.. just have it for sheild/bp)

Goblinfellah
Nuke like hell.. this one is insanely easy. just putted imp on nuke and bolted/dotted like mad

[xen]

Hey guys, thought I'd check in on you all again. I see the thread is still holding its own.

How's everything going? Any nice (reead: overpowered ) changes coming our way? And what build is everyone these days? Still some DP users among you, or did Fenz convert you all back?

[Fenz]

Hey guys, thought I'd check in on you all again. I see the thread is still holding its own.

How's everything going? Any nice (reead: overpowered ) changes coming our way? And what build is everyone these days? Still some DP users among you, or did Fenz convert you all back?

DP? hahahahaha

[Lateralus]

Hey xen whatup?

Im currently SM/RUIN after a few weeks of conflagrate. Im pretty happy with this atm

[Gupim]

Hey guys, thought I'd check in on you all again. I see the thread is still holding its own.

How's everything going? Any nice (reead: overpowered ) changes coming our way? And what build is everyone these days? Still some DP users among you, or did Fenz convert you all back?

SM/ruin and just got my first (guild first cloth) tier3 part last night /flex

did a trip into MD/ruin a while but got back to SM/ruin after a few weeks.


there is some talk about aggro reducing talents comming up but if thats in the burning crusade or not we will find out later.

[Fenz]

Hey guys, thought I'd check in on you all again. I see the thread is still holding its own.

How's everything going? Any nice (reead: overpowered ) changes coming our way? And what build is everyone these days? Still some DP users among you, or did Fenz convert you all back?

SM/ruin and just got my first (guild first cloth) tier3 part last night /flex

did a trip into MD/ruin a while but got back to SM/ruin after a few weeks.


there is some talk about aggro reducing talents comming up but if thats in the burning crusade or not we will find out later.

The potential to over-aggro is major problem for me, I hate overnuking. Also in PvP DS is very nice if the battles are zergish. On the other hand is seems that quite a few Nax fights revolve around raw DPS. I can do pretty decent DPS with my Succ out but 9/10 times they only want my imp

[Lateralus]

Hey guys, thought I'd check in on you all again. I see the thread is still holding its own.

How's everything going? Any nice (reead: overpowered ) changes coming our way? And what build is everyone these days? Still some DP users among you, or did Fenz convert you all back?

SM/ruin and just got my first (guild first cloth) tier3 part last night /flex

did a trip into MD/ruin a while but got back to SM/ruin after a few weeks.


there is some talk about aggro reducing talents comming up but if thats in the burning crusade or not we will find out later.

you seriously need to respec. im sorry to say that. SL owns but its not for naxxramas imo.
The potential to over-aggro is major problem for me, I hate overnuking. Also in PvP DS is very nice if the battles are zergish. On the other hand is seems that quite a few Nax fights revolve around raw DPS. I can do pretty decent DPS with my Succ out but 9/10 times they only want my imp