MC Reflection

xen · Post by **xen** » 26 Jul 2005, 13:55

sneek wrote:Though I too have a preference to which items I'd like to get first - methinks that everything's worth having.

Well, there are many caster drops that are rubbish IMO (among them most pieces of Felheart), since Blizzard's view on what are good stats for a warlock is different from mine.

Mol · Post by **Mol** » 26 Jul 2005, 14:41

So, what do you want Mol? Just give it away because nobody bids on it?

Not give it away, but I suggested a bidding system above. Actually your addition to the bidding system might be pretty good, without you knowing it yourself probably

A secret bid is a good idea, but doesn't take away the fact that people can 'arrange' it. Otherwise, if you 'pass' on an item, maybe make it open to rolls for everyone in that class (no matter how many DKP you have) and winner gets subtracted 10 DKP (less cost) or if you have less than 10, all that you have. You won't get first dibs, but it will cost you less if you win...or something. More input!

Post by **Fenz** » 26 Jul 2005, 14:53

A secret bid is a good idea, but doesn't take away the fact that people can 'arrange' it

Even if people arrange who gets wich drop that doesn't mean it is bad. If they distribute (class specific) loot evenly amongst the class that would save the raidleader a lot of hassle

As long as the loot stays within the 2 guilds it's all good imo.

Arkandor · Post by **Arkandor** » 26 Jul 2005, 19:23

Ok here are some of my thoughts

First of all I think every1 should make a list on EVERY item they want from MC at any point, not just the uber item they hoping to get first. If an item drops that is on that list u SHOULD roll for it. From a shamans point of view: Let say i want all the parts of the Earthfury set and i want the Earthshaker. Now lets pretend that Lucifron drops the Earthfury gloves. I have those on my list soo i should roll for them even tho i want Earhtshaker more. So passing on an item u have on ur list is not a good idea just becuz u want a new weapon the most. So i urge u all to roll an every item u have on that list the first chance u get. This was clearly the case with the Cenarion belt that dropped this saturday, i believe that both Breez and Kimora wants a full Cenarion set at some point in the future but i think they passed on that belt becuz they want to spend points on one of the better parts of the set or becuz they wanted me to spend my points... but i am just happy to spend DKP on the BOE item sets pats becuz they have like 0.1 % chance to drop.

Second of all, many ppl pass on an item out of selfishness becuz they want other to spend their DKP and they want to have those uber items first. If u pass on an item out of selfishness u should not whine if it gets disenchanted becuz it is most likely ur own fault. If u could use an item u should pend ur DKP its as simple as that.

However i know it sux when a an epic are disenchanted but we havent had that scenario yet, so until that happens we should just keep the system as it is on that point imo. Or atleast we should all discuss it more if we can find a good solution for this problem, as we are currently doin in this thread.
I know that this sytem is not flawless... no sytems are. And i know it can use some changes adn it will be changed. I am working on it now.

Here are some of the upcoming changes.

The item limit per raid will be set to 2 or 3 items but this is for itmes u spend DKP on... however outsiders should still not be able to get more then 1 item per raid.

BOE epics that are considered "unwanted" will be kept by the raid leader so that some1 els that is not in the raid atm can spend DKP and recieve it. I will bring that item on every raid to be rolled for at the end of each raid.

Mycavycos · Post by **Mycavycos** » 27 Jul 2005, 14:29

Hello everyone!

I think everyone have good thoughts about loot distribution and hopefully we will solve every problem accosiated with loot. As long as the looting discussion is kept on a friendly level im in but i think the issue is getting out of hand.

IÃ‚Â´m not sure about the "mage" trinket since i can clearly see any priest esp. shadowpriests using it as good as a mage. But i might be wrong.

IÃ‚Â´ll try and post more of my thought here when i recover from my fever : (
Visiting relatives sick isnÃ‚Â´t the best idea, longing for the next MC run. Soo happy to get everyone their loot yay

Over and out// Myca

SerXes · Post by **SerXes** » 28 Jul 2005, 14:55

I see that trinket as useful for all casterclasses but especially for mage/warlock because both of them has considerable burst damage and would benefit from it the most. Personally i would consider it mage/warlock only until none of those classes needed it.

Another system that could be used to appeal more persons is to make every other drop of this item mage/warlock only and the others free so mage/warlock gets a higher amount of these trinkets. A similar system could be used for other items available to several classes.

Post by **sneek** » 28 Jul 2005, 15:28

Perhaps define priority classes in case of the Talisman of Ephemeral Power.

- Mages & Warlocks first.
- Priests, Druids, Shamans second.

In which case first is looked at Mages and Warlocks with the required DKP to make a bid/roll.

If these are not present, then the second layer of classes that could use it - if some of these have enough DKP to qualify to make a bid/roll.

Only then will the item fall down a tier and can be picked up by folks with less then 22 dkp.

Something similar could be made for Hunters and then Shamans for the Sabatons of the Flamewalker.

Late · Post by **Late** » 28 Jul 2005, 15:43

i dont want to be seen to be totally biased towards priests, but that talisman is just as much for a shadow priest as it is for any caster

Mind Flay will take the ful +175

SW:Pain will take the full +175

Devouring Plague will take the full +175

Smite, with 2.5 second casting time (should any shadow priest ever think of using it O_o) would take a very high percentage of 175

Renew would take the full +175

Mind Blast would take between 40 and 50%

Sorry, how can a shadow priest not be considered a first choice for this item? It just doesnt make sense, and i would say that anyone arguing otherwise is thinking only of a healing priest, which is totally wrong. Shadow priests benefit from this just as much as anyone

Post by **sneek** » 28 Jul 2005, 16:17

It's very good to have these types of discussions based on a list of stuff we can expect from MC.

Saves a lot of hassle once it drops for real

Seeing your examples LatÃƒÂ© I can concur that the (shadow)priest fits into the warlock/mage category quite nicely.

My suggestion above was used as an example, not implying that it's the one and only truth.

Post by **prinso** » 28 Jul 2005, 18:11

Late wrote:i dont want to be seen to be totally biased towards priests, but that talisman is just as much for a shadow priest as it is for any caster

Mind Flay will take the ful +175

SW:Pain will take the full +175

Devouring Plague will take the full +175

Smite, with 2.5 second casting time (should any shadow priest ever think of using it O_o) would take a very high percentage of 175

Renew would take the full +175

Mind Blast would take between 40 and 50%

Sorry, how can a shadow priest not be considered a first choice for this item? It just doesnt make sense, and i would say that anyone arguing otherwise is thinking only of a healing priest, which is totally wrong. Shadow priests benefit from this just as much as anyone

swp and devouring plague are both dots so they will not get the full effect
nor will renew

mind flay i believe is a channeled spell? in that case it will also not get the full effect

i think that also the difference is that a priest will not be using this as often as a mage or a wl...since a good priest will also be keeping an eye on their teammates and not always nuking away non stop, whereas for mages and wl's, dmg is all we do :)

and probably in pve the wl/mages get even more advantage from it than priests, unless you can get a setup where the priests can use greater heal instead of flash

xen · Post by **xen** » 28 Jul 2005, 18:31

prinso wrote:i think that also the difference is that a priest will not be using this as often as a mage or a wl...since a good priest will also be keeping an eye on their teammates and not always nuking away non stop, whereas for mages and wl's, dmg is all we do

I have to agree with Prinz on this point. While shadowpriests have the ability to do nice damage, the healing capabilities of priest's aren't affected as much by this trinket. So for warlocks and mages it is helpful for all their skills, whereas for priests it mostly helps in shadowform, which is much more circumstancial. And by the way, the priest that won it: I inspected him outside WSG, and he didn't even had it equipped. He said he "mostly used it in instances".

Mycavycos · Post by **Mycavycos** » 28 Jul 2005, 19:49

The trinket might be more useful for mage or warlock but how are we supposed to convince everyone about this? i mean just because someone thinks itÃ‚Â´s useless for a priest doesnÃ‚Â´t make everyone else think so, there will be priests that believe the trinket is awesome for them. And they will be angry if they cannot roll on it (This applies to alot of mc items i think. Hybrid classes always seem to "steal" items from other classes). Maybe Arkandors idea of making lists will work, although kinda hard to keep track of 40 ppls item lists : /

Or perhaps we just decide warlocks and mages have priority when the trinket drops and when no mage or warlock want or can roll for the trinket other classes can... any ideas?

over and out //Myca

Edit : Btw prinz dots and hots take full advantage over +dmg/healing items. But you mean since the duration runs out before the dot is finished it doesnÃ‚Â´t add?

Post by **Fenz** » 28 Jul 2005, 22:49

Think it should be majority vote (since mages and WL's outnumber the priests

).

But I think most priests agreed mages/wl's first anyway.

Mycavycos · Post by **Mycavycos** » 29 Jul 2005, 14:42

Yes most priest probably agree about the trinket, but im sure there are similar scenarios with other items in the leading role. We have to agree upon these things else people will get angry and frustrated.

Post by **prinso** » 29 Jul 2005, 14:48

Edit : Btw prinz dots and hots take full advantage over +dmg/healing items. But you mean since the duration runs out before the dot is finished it doesnÃ‚Â´t add?

hmm, well, this is how i understand the +dmg to work, from a post made some time ago by a blue on blizz forums

for sw:p and dp, they're insta casts, so they count as 1 sec casts and get 1/3.5 part of the +dmg stuff, which is then spread out over the entire duration of the dot...so sw:p would get (1/3.5)*175/18=2.7 dmg per second extra from activating the talisman, not very effective ( some of the wl's dot have a base casting time so they get a bit more effectiveness out off it)....

same goes for channeled spells i believe, which are also not extremely effecient because the spell usually lasts more than 3.5 seconds yet the 175 dmg is spread out over the entire time of the channel...

this is how i recall it from a post made by blizz at some point, i couldn't find the original post on the forums, would help if someone could find it :)