by a dog.. hmm did u see corruption on it? im pretty sure that dog was fenz. SHAME ON U!!Nezguhl wrote:Fenz Im sad to say that our rabbit(my niece rabbit tbh) got killed by a dog a few days ago (true story)Fenz wrote:Hand over the rabbit please.Nezguhl wrote:HE CAN BOIL MY MOM IF HE WANTS TO AS LONG AS WE PROGRESS IN NAXXLateralus wrote:OMG HES GOING TO BOIL UR RABBIT!!!Fenz wrote:<3Nezguhl wrote:qftLateralus wrote:btw nax is the shit!
I JUST LOVE THAT PLACE!!!!!!!! I LOVE SO MUCH I GONNA GIVE MY NEW PHONENUMBER TO FENZ
WARLOCKS
It can be Fenz i wasnt there... my mom just said a fat dog killed it.Lateralus wrote:by a dog.. hmm did u see corruption on it? im pretty sure that dog was fenz. SHAME ON U!!Nezguhl wrote:Fenz Im sad to say that our rabbit(my niece rabbit tbh) got killed by a dog a few days ago (true story)Fenz wrote:Hand over the rabbit please.Nezguhl wrote:HE CAN BOIL MY MOM IF HE WANTS TO AS LONG AS WE PROGRESS IN NAXXLateralus wrote:OMG HES GOING TO BOIL UR RABBIT!!!Fenz wrote:<3Nezguhl wrote:qftLateralus wrote:btw nax is the shit!
I JUST LOVE THAT PLACE!!!!!!!! I LOVE SO MUCH I GONNA GIVE MY NEW PHONENUMBER TO FENZ
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Taurodomus
- Warlord
- Posts: 608
- Joined: 26 Jul 2005, 17:46
- Location: EAAAAAAARTH
tbh i thought this was a serious thread..Nezguhl wrote:It can be Fenz i wasnt there... my mom just said a fat dog killed it.Lateralus wrote:by a dog.. hmm did u see corruption on it? im pretty sure that dog was fenz. SHAME ON U!!Nezguhl wrote:Fenz Im sad to say that our rabbit(my niece rabbit tbh) got killed by a dog a few days ago (true story)Fenz wrote:Hand over the rabbit please.Nezguhl wrote:HE CAN BOIL MY MOM IF HE WANTS TO AS LONG AS WE PROGRESS IN NAXXLateralus wrote:OMG HES GOING TO BOIL UR RABBIT!!!Fenz wrote:<3Nezguhl wrote:qftLateralus wrote:btw nax is the shit!
I JUST LOVE THAT PLACE!!!!!!!! I LOVE SO MUCH I GONNA GIVE MY NEW PHONENUMBER TO FENZ
Post on the US board from a lock + blue responses
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... ost8856175
16 effects is not a lot when you start thinking about it. Some classes have secondary effects that they cannot control which will end up on the target. It is pretty much guaranteed with 10 mages/warlocks on a raid spamming frostbolts and shadowbolts that frost vulnerability and shadow vulnerability will always be up as well as Deep Wounds from the 6 warriors on the raid. Add in CoE/CoS/CoR, Sunder Armor, and we are already taking up nearly half of those 16 limited spots. Heck, warlocks alone can place 2-4 dots each depending on spec and if the target is vulnerable to fire or not.
Simply put, the more and more I play my PvE warlock in end game 40-person raids, the more I feel like I'm a red-headed step child. Our defined role is that of a dot/debuff class, yet we can't even do that effectively because of the 16 limited effects a mob can have on them. And many of those precious spots can easily be eaten up by class effects that players have no control over, i.e. shadow vulnerability, frost vulnerability, deep wounds, weapon procs, etc.
Once you add it all up, CoE/CoS/CoR, Sunder Armor, frost + shadow vulnerability, Mortal Strike, and Deep Wounds alone takes up half of those available effect slots. Add in a few slots for other class effects which they have little to no control over as well as weapon procs, and warlocks really have little to no room for our dots. In fact, I would take an educated guess and say on most targets, warlock dots probably only do 10-15% of their damage before being pushed off the target.
Here are how the 16 effects get eaten up in my guild:
1. Sunder Armor
2. CoE -10% damage increase for mages
3. CoS - 10% damage increase for warlocks
4. CoR - 6-10% damage increase for melee/hunters
5. Frost vulnerability - proc from frostbolts, uncontrollable; usually always up with 6 mages.
6. Shadow vulnerability - proc from shadowbolts, uncontrollable; usually always up with 4 warlocks
7. Deep Wounds - proc from warriors, uncontrollable
8. Thunderfury - proc from our MTs sword, uncontrollable
9. Mortal Strike
10. Hunter's Mark
11. Demoralizing Shout
12. Thunderclap
13.
14.
15.
16.
This doesn't leave many spots for warlock dots and is one of the main reason warlocks end up being nothing but shadowbolt spammers with no viable threat/aggro control means on 40-man raids. Warlocks have become watered downed PvE mages whos sole purpose is to apply CoE and CoR to further increase mage and melee/hunter damage. Instead of simply having 16 effects all lumped together, it would be nice to have the effects broken into categories (as well as the overall effect limit being increased to 30). So category 1 would be dots with 12-15 available slots, category 2 debuffs with 10 slots, category 3 procs with 5-8 available slots, etc. Each of the effects in the categories would not mix so the procs from category 3 couldn't override the dots or debuff from the other categories.
As a warlock myself, I think you might be getting ahead of yourself just a bit. For the record, I preferred your original subject line as opposed to the more sensationalist one this thread now carries.
Debuff priority is being considered in a few general categories. The foremost of which is de/buffs that provide group benefit or change the state of the monster in a way that many classes are benefitted. Spells such as CoE and CoS cleanly fall into this category.
Now, de/buffs that are simple damage may not have as much priority, due to the fact that DPS from de/buffs can be generated from several sources, but more importantly because they are more controllable. If you are competing with a druid for de/buff slots, that is a game play decision in the hands of the raid or raid leader. Corruption may get bumped, but is the DPS simply being replaced or removed entirely? With our rankings we aim to have it be more a case of replacement than removal. Cases outside of that can then be controlled through group organization and decision-making.
Less controllable or random procs generally have a lesser value, but there are exceptions to the rule depending on the impact of the proc (Thunderfury comes to mind). This also intermingles with de/buffs that are more controllable, but also more impactful.
Now, I don't have the full list to answer individual questions regarding exactly how this de/buff compares to that, but I wanted to provide a general overview of our thinking in this.
We don't have any plans to expand the debuff limit of 16. It may change, but we like the way it is now and the development of the debuff rankings is somewhat dependant on having clear numbers to work with.
When players settle into these mechanics and they are developed further, we can iron out specifics on our end(such was the case with Deep Wounds taking too much priority) and players can make more group-based decisions if there are a lot of instances of competition for slots. There is play we would like to have between what is established through game design and what can be manipulated through player/group decision without resorting to a UI interface or a 'raid leader mechanically decides what has more value' system.
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Q u o t e:
I don't suppose it would be possible to increase the debuff slots on raid bosses and raid bosses only? I doubt the 16 get exceeded often even on regular elite pulls...but when 40 people get less than half a debuff each, they drop out real fast. Or does a debuff limit increase have to be applied across the board?
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Seeing as part of the reason the debuff limit is what it is due to programming considerations/limitations, I believe it has to be applied generally, not specifically.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... ost8856175
I ain't leaving without your soul and I am sober this time.
Keybindings ATT: Passa
1= Curse of agony
2= Corruption
3= Searing Pain
4= Shadowbolt
5= Immolate
6= Soul Fire
9= Health Funnel
H= Wand
T= Shadowburn
E= Death Coil
R= Curse of tongues
C= Curse of Shadows
X= Curse of Elements
Z= Curse of Recklessness
<= Howl of terror
G= Life Tap
F5= Healthstone
F6= Healing Pot
F7= Mana Pot
F8= Demonic Rune
F1= Dispell myself (felhunter)
F2= Hellfire
F3= Rain of Fire
F4= TWoF
V. Drain Soul
F= Drain life
ALT W= Drain mana
ALT 2= Curse of Weakness
ALT F= Banish
§= Fear
F9= Bandage myself
ALT 3= Shadowward Mousebutton
5= Cannibalize Mousebutton
4= Autorun
*= Summon wolf
-=Sacrifice Pet
Trinket 1 : ALT+E Trinket 2 : ALT+R
And on Shift 2 i have summon, demon armor, create healthstone etcetc.. professions on Shift 3 and rest on Shift 4
I think i covered everything there :p
1= Curse of agony
2= Corruption
3= Searing Pain
4= Shadowbolt
5= Immolate
6= Soul Fire
9= Health Funnel
H= Wand
T= Shadowburn
E= Death Coil
R= Curse of tongues
C= Curse of Shadows
X= Curse of Elements
Z= Curse of Recklessness
<= Howl of terror
G= Life Tap
F5= Healthstone
F6= Healing Pot
F7= Mana Pot
F8= Demonic Rune
F1= Dispell myself (felhunter)
F2= Hellfire
F3= Rain of Fire
F4= TWoF
V. Drain Soul
F= Drain life
ALT W= Drain mana
ALT 2= Curse of Weakness
ALT F= Banish
§= Fear
F9= Bandage myself
ALT 3= Shadowward Mousebutton
5= Cannibalize Mousebutton
4= Autorun
*= Summon wolf
-=Sacrifice Pet
Trinket 1 : ALT+E Trinket 2 : ALT+R
And on Shift 2 i have summon, demon armor, create healthstone etcetc.. professions on Shift 3 and rest on Shift 4
I think i covered everything there :p
